Best 30-caliber battle rifle? - Page 2
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > Best 30-caliber battle rifle?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-23-2011, 02:47 PM   #11
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
robocop10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin,Texas, by God!!
Posts: 10,108
Liked 2773 Times on 1449 Posts
Likes Given: 243

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
The reason the AR-10 doesn't really interest me is the cost involved. For instance, one can find a Mosin Nagant for $200, easy. AR-10's would cost 5x that at LEAST.

The longer cases interest the the most, in the family of .30-'06.

The FN-FAL gave the guys fits on Top Shot. Is that indicative of the platform?

What does the M-14 fire, since that's a popular one so far?
And the AR-10 is 5X the rifle the MN is. Considering the WWI/ WWII surplus relic in the same conversation with a moden battle rifle is frankly, silly.

If longer cases are more "intersting" to you then get a Garand or FN-49. The Swedish Ljungman/Hakim may interest you.

If you are going to base your acquisition on a TV show, we have a problem. Why not a Winchester 1982 because Chuck Conners carried one in "The Rifleman"

"What does the M-14 fire"? Really? I do not know how to take this. The M-14 rifle fires the 7.62 X 51 (NATO) cartridge. It will also accept the .308 Winchester commercial cartridge. No, you cannot have an M-14 (unless you have a VERY stupidly large sum of money laying around. The M-14 is a selective fire rifle (machine gun) and there are very few transferrable specimens out there. They bring a premium even in comparision to other machine guns. IF you can find someone willing to part with one, it woud likely set you back $20,000 or more. Yes, I said 20K!

WTS there are a number of M-14 clones out there. The Springfield M1A being the most notable. The Chinese made Polytech's up to the Smith Enterprises versions can be had for far less. ALL of these are semi-auto and should not be considered M-14's anymore than an AR-15 is considered an M-16. (don't get into the fact that the VERY early AR-15's made before they were accepted into military service were in fact select fire machineguns.)

Onward;

The 7.62 Nato rifles available are (certainly not a complete list)

M1A and its various versions
HK-91 from Germany or may other iterations
CETME (kind a a Spanish HK, but not really)
FN-FAL and others based on this design
AR-10 (itself a slect-fire machinegun from Armalite and other rifles made semi auto by various makers)
Keltec RFB (a bull pup configured rifle that is new to the market)

I have an HK-91 and a CETME. They are great guns, but shooting commercial .308 ammo is not advised because of a design feature that makes it a bit iffy. Plus side? VERY cheap magazines available,$2-$5. No gas system to foul as it is a unique delayed blowback operation.

I am considering an AR-10 in the form of a Rock River LAR-8.

The Keltec offering is interesting, but IMHO unproven.

The M1A is the standard by which all are judged. Not perfect, but available in a wide variety of trims from basic, synthetic stocked rifle to super accurate National Match and sniper grade rifles that are capable of accuracy on par with some of the best bolt action rifles. Down side? Good magazines are pricey.

FN. Well, the FN-FAL and its various iteraions made by England, Canada, Australia and Belgium (and a few others) are considered the shoulder arm of the free world. There have been more examples of this rifle made and distributed throughout the world than any other battle rifle in history. The AK-47 (an assault rifle) is/was made in greater numbers by the "enemy", but the FN has seen action on nearly every continent. The magazines are plentiful and relatively cheap (make sure you get the right kind as there are "inch pattern and metric" magazines.
__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball

robocop10mm is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2011, 03:10 PM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
canebrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 150 miles NE of Sloppy Joe's Bar
Posts: 21,941
Liked 1419 Times on 808 Posts
Likes Given: 1290

Default

Kudos Robo, great post.

My personal choice would be the M14. (kinda old-school)

__________________
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...brake02jpg.jpg

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/...ps18cfbeae.jpg

Get her dirty, then clean her so she starts to respect you. When her trust is complete, she will serve you well for a lifetime!

"...if doves shot back, there wouldn't be a need for a bag limit."
- orangello
canebrake is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2011, 07:17 PM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CHLChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 2,523
Liked 190 Times on 129 Posts
Likes Given: 89

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
"What does the M-14 fire"? Really? I do not know how to take this. The M-14 rifle fires the 7.62 X 51 (NATO) cartridge.
That's all I was asking. Was there a better way I should have asked the question so I didn't sound like the novice I actually am?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
The M-14 is a selective fire rifle (machine gun) and there are very few transferrable specimens out there. They bring a premium even in comparision to other machine guns. IF you can find someone willing to part with one, it woud likely set you back $20,000 or more. Yes, I said 20K!
Also important to know. And, NO, I guess I don't want an M14, just like I don't want an M16 for the same reason. I purchased and built an AR-15, just as the M1A, per your response, would be the civilian equivalent.

Lastly, the only reason to discuss the AR-10 and Mosin in the same breath is that, with a limited budget, is it better to buy an inexpensive rifle with a load of ammo for it NOW...or save for 3 years and buy the best LATER? It is a rhetorical question. I know where I'd fall on that continuum. Some guys in this world can buy firearms like they can buy the newest rig to pull the Chris Craft. That's not me so I'm just talking through the balance.

I do appreciate your help, though, Robo. The huge resource of knowledge here is why I even bother to ask the question.
__________________
.45acp, .40 S&W, 9mm, .38 Spl, .380 acp, 22lr
12 gauge, .223/5.56x45mm, 30-30 Winchester


2 Chron. 7:14 Christians must seek His face
CHLChris is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2011, 08:15 PM   #14
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
robocop10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin,Texas, by God!!
Posts: 10,108
Liked 2773 Times on 1449 Posts
Likes Given: 243

Default

Sorry, the semantical arguments put forth by the anti-gun left have spoiled the fun. They have twisted the definitions of various gun terms to the point they are mostly moot.

IMHO there are some things one should understand

Assault rifle. Shoulder fired, air cooled, selective fire (capable of firing full auto), fed from detachable magazines, firing an intermediate powered rifle cartridge. Examples; M-16, AK-47/AKM (the full auto variety), British SA-80, French FAMAS, M-2 carbine (arguable), STG-44

Battle rifle. Shoulder fired, air cooled, mostly semi-auto, magazine fed, firing a full power rifle cartridge. Examples; M-1 Garand, FN-49, FN-FAL, HK-91, CETME B, M-14/M1A.

Light machinegun (LMG). This one has morphed a pit over the years. Originally it was a belt fed machinegun, air cooled, and one man portable. The Browning M-1919-A6 filled this bill, but is heavy by modern standards. Today the M-249/FN Minimi is the archetype.

Medium machinegun. There was a time the heavyweights like the MG-42 was a medium machinegun

GPMG or General purpose machine gun. This has mostly supplanted the previous medium machine gun. The M-60 and the M-240/FN GPMAG are the common examples.

SAW or Squad automatic weapon. Perhaps interchangeable with the LMG concept. The M-249 is the modern rendition. The BAR was the most famous of this ilk. Some are/were magazine fed, some are belt fed. The BAR was a heavy beast firing the .30-06 full powered cartridge from 20 round magazines. By comparison the M-249 fires an assault rifle cartridge from either metal link belts or M-16 magazines.

Heavy machinegun. In the early days they were water cooled, tripod mounted affairs that were crew served, that is to say it took a crew of (usually) 3 to transport and service (fire). The Browning M-1917, Hotchkiss, Vickers and Maxim guns come to mind. Today these are obsolete and the genre is almost wholly represented by the M-2 Browning .50 caliber machinegun and the Russian DsHk 12.7mm

To avoid the stigma of the mis-labeled "Assault rifle" many are now referring to semi-auto magazine fed military look alike rifles as Sport Utility Rifles or SUR's. If the anti-gunners can arbitrarily call an AR-15 an Assault rifle, we can arbitrarily call it an SUR
Enough of my diatribe. This is just a teaser of an introduction to arms.

__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball


Last edited by robocop10mm; 07-23-2011 at 10:09 PM.
robocop10mm is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 03:12 AM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CHLChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 2,523
Liked 190 Times on 129 Posts
Likes Given: 89

Default

Robo, would you fit the 1903 Springfield under the same "Battle Rifle" category as the M1 Garand, even since it is bolt action?

I seem to be drawn to the bolt action, internal box, rifles. I always have my AR-15 for large amounts of high-velocity lead, if necessary.

__________________
.45acp, .40 S&W, 9mm, .38 Spl, .380 acp, 22lr
12 gauge, .223/5.56x45mm, 30-30 Winchester


2 Chron. 7:14 Christians must seek His face
CHLChris is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 03:33 AM   #16
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
robocop10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin,Texas, by God!!
Posts: 10,108
Liked 2773 Times on 1449 Posts
Likes Given: 243

Default

No, a bolt action rifle is not a battle rifle (in my book). The 1903 is a very fine bolt action rifle, just not a battle rifle. I know it is confusing, it was used in many, many battles. Same cartridge, different action. The BAR uses the same cartridge, but it is a Squad Automatic Weapon

__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball


Last edited by robocop10mm; 07-24-2011 at 03:36 AM.
robocop10mm is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 05:07 AM   #17
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
armsmaster270's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sacramento,CA
Posts: 753
Liked 142 Times on 91 Posts
Likes Given: 156

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post

Battle rifle. Shoulder fired, air cooled, mostly semi-auto, magazine fed, firing a full power rifle cartridge. Examples; M-1 Garand, FN-49, FN-FAL, HK-91, CETME B, M-14/M1A.
The M-1 is En Block clip fed not magazine
__________________
https://sites.google.com/a/armsmaster.net/www/
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/armsmaster270/

http://militarysignatures.com/signat...ember14888.png
Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator, armorer, F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor , Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.
armsmaster270 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 05:43 AM   #18
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 17,656
Liked 5744 Times on 3001 Posts
Likes Given: 380

Default

My definition of battle rifle is any rifle firing any cartridge that was issued to main front line infantry units to fight in combat and must have the capability of mounting a bayonet for hand to hand combat. This includes everything from m1 carbine m16 and the old brownbess muskets of the revolutionary war and everything in between. Doesnt require tual rifling.

__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

JonM is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:01 PM   #19
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
robocop10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin,Texas, by God!!
Posts: 10,108
Liked 2773 Times on 1449 Posts
Likes Given: 243

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by armsmaster270 View Post
The M-1 is En Block clip fed not magazine
The ammunition is indeed loaded into an en-bloc clip, but that clip is loaded into an internal magazine which in turn feeds the ammo from the clip to the chamber.
__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball

robocop10mm is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 08:28 PM   #20
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Glockcurmudgeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. George, Utah
Posts: 58
Default Okay...

I'm prejudiced, mainly by my own experience...

PTR 91, especially the MSG-91 variant.
M1A
HK91
FN FAL

There are lots of rifles out there that are used around the world, today, in combat... There are even more types that have been used in combat in years/wars past, that are still man killers.

The above four would be my choices...

Glockcurmudgeon, out...

__________________

"You can kill a free man, you can't enslave him." -Robert Anson Heinlein- American Patriot

Shot placement is king, yes. But penetration is queen, and a wide wound channel is the ace in the hole. -Cuda66

Μολὼν λαβέ (Molōn labe!)

Glockcurmudgeon is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
What rifle/caliber is best? opaww General Rifle Discussion 152 06-20-2014 06:27 PM
Looking for good battle rifle suvivalistandguns General Rifle Discussion 25 10-05-2011 12:15 PM
Battle Rifle M500 Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion 150 12-16-2010 11:37 PM
Rifle caliber distances workinprogress General Rifle Discussion 12 01-26-2010 03:13 PM
Favorite Consumer Available Battle Rifle notdku Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion 11 04-15-2008 05:31 AM