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-   -   AR-10 questions... (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f25/ar-10-questions-53801/)

fmj 12-19-2011 12:27 AM

AR-10 questions...
 
Started hunting my next gun. It is going to be a Ruger .44 mag (Redhawk or Super redhawk) OR an AR 10....

I know the the AR 15 is OHHH so popular but i am personally not a fan of the itty bitty round. I want some azz behind my shots!!

Here goes. What brands and features should i be looking for in an AR-10?

Also, in reading over in the "15" thread that 5.56 chamber can shoot .223 but not vicey versy. Is the same true between 7.62 x 54 and .308? Do i hunt one chambered in 7.62 x 54 as opposed to one in .308?

Also, how similar is the bullet between the 7.62 and .308 from a reloading point of view? Where i sit (from what i understand) i can use the same bullet for reloading the .308 as i do/would the 30-06. Both 30 cal. So i expect i would be shooting/reloading .308 and 30-06.

Was fondling one one the other night,(AR-10) DPMS flat top, 30 round mag, collapsible stock, 16" bbl, flash hider...no forward assist or sights. $1000. Good price?

How important is forward assist on a "black gun" or "Battle rifle"??

Figure its time to get one specifically designed for SHTF.

Please excuse my ignorance...my forte' is hunting weapons. NOT service weapons/military type /style weapons...but i KNOW there is a TON of knowledge here on this subject...so i ask!

Thanks in advance

jjfuller1 12-19-2011 12:56 AM

i have a couple answers that may help.

1. the ammo issue. where as the 5.56 will fire both.. the 7.62 x 51 is the opposite. a .308 chamber will fire either, and a 7.62 x 51mm CANNOT fire .308. this is due to the fact that the 7.62 x 51mm chamber is made to be more loose and the standerd . 308 will not be supported enough.

It's the chamber specifications for the two rounds that *may* be different, because 7.62 NATO has a much looser tolerance for headspace. As such, a tight 7.62 chamber should be identical to a .308 Winchester chamber, and can fire either cartridge without issue. A loose 7.62 chamber, on the other hand, should only be used with 7.62 ammunition, because the 7.62 brass is thicker and safely contains the pressure from firing, even if the headspace of the chamber it's in, is such that the brass isn't fully supported and snug against the chamber wall.

A 7.62 machine gun will likely have a looser chamber, so that it reliably feeds and extracts 7.62 rounds at a high rate of fire and while very hot. But it's not entirely safe to fire .308 rounds out of said machine guns, because of the .308 rounds' thinner brass.

2. ive used my forward assist a few times and am happy its there. if you happen to peak in the chamber to double checkfor brass. or if your bolt happens to get dirty or for other reasons fails to close all the way just a quick tap and your ready to go.

neilage66 12-19-2011 12:58 AM

An AR10 would be a good choice for many porpoises.

I happen to be an ArmaLite guy, so I would steer you that direction, they are the original, but there are other options available nowadays.

* I think you meant to say 7.62 X 51 NATO...not 7.62 X 54R.

I would recommend a 7.62 NATO chambering as opposed to .308WIN mainly because there is a multitude of military surplus ammo on the market.

Yes, same projectile for .30-06 and 7.62 NATO and .308...the main differences of 7.62 & .308 are in the cartridge case and chamber dimensions.

Keep in mind that cheap 7.62 ammo will be twice as expensive as cheap 5.56.
Match ammo is ridiculous anymore.

Have fun in your quest.

ShirtRIPPA 12-20-2011 01:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by neilage66
An AR10 would be a good choice for many porpoises.



Attachment 36399

Sorry had to do it, only teasing :)

I do have a question however, what kind of barrel would you recommend when building an AR-10?

neilage66 12-20-2011 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShirtRIPPA (Post 656086)
Sorry had to do it, only teasing :)

I do have a question however, what kind of barrel would you recommend when building an AR-10?

HAHA!

I don't know who your question is directed at but I would counter with a question.

What are you going to do with the rifle?

I'm trying to locate a 24" ArmaLite AR10T heavy barrel with no muzzle threads but that would not be the choice for everyone or many applications for that matter.

I would start my research at ArmaLite.com & 762SASS.com

fmj 12-20-2011 04:54 PM

Yep, did mean 51.

I too would like to hear what barrel length would be recommended.

If i get one chambered in .308 and come across a killer deal on say a can of 7.62, what differences, if any, can i expect in performance?

I like the idea of having the ability of shooting different types of ammo, but after learning the hard way with my .357 that you cannot easily switch back and forth, i am left wondering if this wont also be the case shifting back forth between 7.62x51 and .308.

I realize the cost difference between the 7.62 and 5.56 will be quite a difference...

...but my thought process goes something like...

...After building an abundance of brass (will prolly by a case of 308 re-loadable) i will be reloading for both .308 and for my 30-06 (already have a decent surplus of 06 brass....been shooting one for quite a few years) i can then (in theory, at this time as i havent looked that close at the manual and compared loading data between the two....but have read 308 and 30-06 are ballistically exact at 100 yds) use same bullets, primers and powders for either. I can then just go hog wild and get 8+ lb cans of powder, 10,000 primers and bullets at a time. ;):D buy in bulk and save money. ;) all i would have to do is by a .308 die set and be "in there".

Anywho...thanks for the replies so far guys...I am ignorant to this particular subject (as you can tell) and am just looking for opinions.

I think the hunting for a new gun is almost as much fun as the actual getting/shooting a new gun. I usually spend a few months doing research, (as i scrimp and scrounge my pennies) and shopping around at different stores, online and gun shows before actually buying. So far its worked out well for me....the only gun i even kinda sorta "regret" or wished i would have researched/gotten more opinions on/thought a bit longer about is my S&W 686. Its a GREAT gun with an even better tale attached to how i got it, i AM satisfied with it...but my regret is i wished i would have gotten that revolver in .44 spec/mag. instead of getting the .38 spec/357mag. I let my heart guide me in that one and i jumped too quick.

fmj 12-20-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilage66 (Post 656178)
HAHA!

I don't know who your question is directed at but I would counter with a question.

What are you going to do with the rifle?

I'm trying to locate a 24" ArmaLite AR10T heavy barrel with no muzzle threads but that would not be the choice for everyone or many applications for that matter.

I would start my research at ArmaLite.com & 762SASS.com

My answer to this would be "general purpose". After you get past the "cool factor". Something i can shoot at the range for fun/hunt/ and be a SHTF "insurance policy". I have a safe full of "hunting purpose" guns with beautiful wood furniture...this will be my first (and at this time the thought is) only "black" gun.

jjfuller1 12-20-2011 10:26 PM

you will notice a difference in ammo mainly becuase you would be reloading, which should be more consistant and accurate, but im sure you knew that...the ammo itself is less the problem. its more of the chamber causing the issues with this caliber. unlike the .223 which is the ammo's problem.

as far as buying surplus or bulk, and reloading i dont think there would be very much difference besides the usual differences one sees when trying to find that perfect load in any firearm

so say. you bought bulk 7.62x51. at 147 gr.

not positive but i believe it would be similar ballistically to a reloaded or commercial 147gr rnd.

but different than say a 180gr rnd.

again, have not attempted this myself. just what ive learned/been told

JonM 12-20-2011 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmj (Post 655120)
Started hunting my next gun. It is going to be a Ruger .44 mag (Redhawk or Super redhawk) OR an AR 10....

I know the the AR 15 is OHHH so popular but i am personally not a fan of the itty bitty round. I want some azz behind my shots!!

Here goes. What brands and features should i be looking for in an AR-10?

pretty much a personal taste question but with a AR10 a flat top would prolly be high on the list. im a fan of the RRA products they use some pretty nice barrels most of which comes from the wilson barrel makers.

Also, in reading over in the "15" thread that 5.56 chamber can shoot .223 but not vicey versy. Is the same true between 7.62 x 54 and .308? Do i hunt one chambered in 7.62 x 54 as opposed to one in .308?

Also, how similar is the bullet between the 7.62 and .308 from a reloading point of view? Where i sit (from what i understand) i can use the same bullet for reloading the .308 as i do/would the 30-06. Both 30 cal. So i expect i would be shooting/reloading .308 and 30-06.

7.62x51/308/30-06 all use .308 diameter bullets. the difference is you can use much heavier bullets easier with the 30-06. case capacity starts becoming a real limiting factor when you get over 185grains in bullet weight thats where the 30-06 starts kicking the 308/7.62's butt.

Was fondling one one the other night,(AR-10) DPMS flat top, 30 round mag, collapsible stock, 16" bbl, flash hider...no forward assist or sights. $1000. Good price?

i want to comment on the barrel length. 16" 308 is EXTREMELY loud to shoot even worse when a compensator is added. so much so it is almost unbearable even with hearing protection. i usually take my m44 mosin to the range and leave it cased until someone sits down next to me with a 16" 308 then i break out the m44 and give some back ;) you wont earn many friends at the range with a shorty 308... 24" is the ideal length for 308 when looking at long range ballistics. shortest i would go is 20". in my opinion if you go under 20" you should be looking more at the 300whisper, 6.8, or 300blk rather than a 308. at 16" your just waisting a lot of powder making noise and flash at a pricey cost.

How important is forward assist on a "black gun" or "Battle rifle"??

in my opinion its not important at all.

Figure its time to get one specifically designed for SHTF.

Please excuse my ignorance...my forte' is hunting weapons. NOT service weapons/military type /style weapons...but i KNOW there is a TON of knowledge here on this subject...so i ask!

Thanks in advance

my responses are in bold. i know you arent going to like this opinion butttttt i dont think the 308 in a short barrel is a good shtf gun at all. reasons: ammo is too heavy, gun itself is too heavy, mags are very bulky, for shtf an intermediate cartridge is what i prefer the lighter the better. lightweight lets you carry other things while carrying a useful ammount of ammo. in shtf a wound is just as good as a kill as the purpose isnt to commit murder but to stop agression and a smack with a 55grn fmj does that very well.

if you need something bigger in a static situation then you want a full size rifle cartridge in a useful length barrel and being static mobility isnt as much of an issue.

anyway just my thinking and opinions

fmj 12-21-2011 08:14 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

Out fondling guns today and FINALLY got to fondle an AR-10. Armalite SASS, 20" bbl, quad rail, magpul adjustable buttstock.

::Findings (without shooting)::

VERY expensive and WAY out of my price range!

FRIGGN HEAVY gun!!
Even without a fully loaded 20 or 30 rd mag.

I am simply AMAZED at the difference in weight between the AR-15 and the 10. If i purchased it it would be BY FAR the heaviest gun in my safe.

The one shop did quote me a price (they would have to order it) right @ a grand, the other was 1200. This is for a DPMS Ar-10 and not the armalite...but neither could get me exactly what I wanted. If i get a 20" bbl it comes with a solid stock, if i get the collapsible stock that i want, they can only get 'em in 16" bbl. :confused:

Looks like imma be stuck with an AR -15 if i want a "black gun" and this doesnt make me happy!:mad::(


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