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Old 10-04-2011, 06:35 AM   #11
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The performance and accuracy of the 7.62x39 is essentially the same as the 30-30, which is THE classic American deer rifle caliber. As I hope everyone here already knows, neither of these are intended for used as sniper or long range mountain cartridges. Actually, neither are realistically meant to be used at ranges beyond 300 yards and the optimum is probably more like 200 for both.

With that being said, try shooting a Saiga if you want a slightly more accurate AK style rifle than your standard eastern European surplus import. They are designed from the start as hunting rifles and have closer tolerances (which usually means better accuracy) than the modified milsurp/milspec models most of us see. I have a Saiga in 7.62x39 and even with my 60 y/o eyes I can easily place a half dozen shots into a pie pan size target at 100 yards, even smaller with a 4x scope. That sort of accuracy is MORE than adequate for a personal/home defense weapon or one meant for use on medium size game like deer, hogs and other similar sized critters (like a home intruder).

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Old 10-04-2011, 08:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wambli

Since I brought it up I want to be clear I did not mean what I wrote in a disparaging manner. There is nothing wrong with Hi-Point guns. I was just using it as an example of a reliable but inexpensively made firearm that goes bang every time you need it to.
Hi-point weapons I wouldn't sell to Iraq lmao not to be disrespectful but just like with alot of things in life you get what you pay for I had one hi point just to see how long it would last and I threw it in the river after a month it was trash. Spend good money get a good result (excluding the ak) hence it is probably still the most commonly used weapons in the world do to is capability of a long life and almost all models can be put together to make one weapon. Sorry if I offend you
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rachilders
The performance and accuracy of the 7.62x39 is essentially the same as the 30-30, which is THE classic American deer rifle caliber. As I hope everyone here already knows, neither of these are intended for used as sniper or long range mountain cartridges. Actually, neither are realistically meant to be used at ranges beyond 300 yards and the optimum is probably more like 200 for both.

With that being said, try shooting a Saiga if you want a slightly more accurate AK style rifle than your standard eastern European surplus import. They are designed from the start as hunting rifles and have closer tolerances (which usually means better accuracy) than the modified milsurp/milspec models most of us see. I have a Saiga in 7.62x39 and even with my 60 y/o eyes I can easily place a half dozen shots into a pie pan size target at 100 yards, even smaller with a 4x scope. That sort of accuracy is MORE than adequate for a personal/home defense weapon or one meant for use on medium size game like deer, hogs and other similar sized critters (like a home intruder).
From the teachings I have had bestowed on me a 7.62x39 is the same as a 308 and has no similarity to a 30-30
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:45 PM   #14
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Both the .308 and 7.62x39 were designed from the ground up as rimless, modern (post WWII) military rounds. The 30-30 is a rimmed case hunting round that's well over a century old (1895) and was designed for use with a lever action hunting rifle. So yes, in many ways the .308 has more in common with the 7.62 than the 30-30.

OTOH, look at the stats and compare the performance numbers for the 7.62x39 with both the .308 & 30-30. All the ones I've seen indicate the closest match in actual stopping power, accuracy and range to the 7.62 caliber is the 30-30. Here is a quote from Wikipedia on this exact topic... "Since approximately 1990, the 7.62×39mm cartridge has seen some use in hunting arms in the US for hunting game up to the size of whitetail deer, as it is approximately as powerful as the .30-30 Winchester round, and has a similar ballistic profile."

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Old 10-04-2011, 03:19 PM   #15
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AK s are somewhat inaccurate.They are definitely not as accurate as an AR15.Other than the actual gun with its generous tolerances its inherently the cartridge 7.62 X 39.An accurate round has never been built and Im not sure it can be built.I have an Arsenal SLR101 in 7.62 X 39.Wonderful gun never has malfunctioned.I regularly it steel pigs at 300 yrds with this gun.Just a word about the Red Jacket Saiga AK.Lets not forget that it was a .308 caliber in a Kreiger barrel.The round and the barrel make the difference.For what the AK 47 was designed for its one of the tops in its class.

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Old 10-04-2011, 03:49 PM   #16
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Default There are exceptions

My AK is a WASR-10/63 and from what I read and hear they are not reportedly the best in the West, but I ordered a different rear sight to replace the issue one. This being a MOJO, peep aperature type with a
little windage screw and an elevation wheel adjustment.

The Military tought me the 'perfect sight picture" and the rear sights on those rifles were peep-aperature types. So for me that is a win-win deal.

I usually shoot out back at an old dry pond at cans, rocks, an old protane tank,etc sitting on my 4 wheeler, and taking a rest. I can, time after time pulverize snuff can sized rocks at 50 yards and I shoot full jacketed Russki and some old Chinese 7.62X39mm ammo. Which will make gravel from rocks.

I have a scope and mount for that AK but I neither need nor use them.

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Old 10-04-2011, 05:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by rachilders View Post
OTOH, look at the stats and compare the performance numbers for the 7.62x39 with both the .308 & 30-30. All the ones I've seen indicate the closest match in actual stopping power, accuracy and range to the 7.62 caliber is the 30-30. Here is a quote from Wikipedia on this exact topic... "Since approximately 1990, the 7.62×39mm cartridge has seen some use in hunting arms in the US for hunting game up to the size of whitetail deer, as it is approximately as powerful as the .30-30 Winchester round, and has a similar ballistic profile."
You are correct. Ballistically, the 7.62x39 and 308 are not similar at all. The 308 is much faster, even in higher weight bullets, and has much more energy than the x39. The 30-30 is much closer in both muzzle velocity and energy, and if you wanna get closer yet, the 6.8 and x39 have almost identical muzzle velocity and energy, though I think the 6.8 retains them better due to a higher BC.

-Fred
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:10 PM   #18
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People always compare the accuracy of this gun to that gun, but let's be realistic. While there are other semi-automatic rifles chambered in an intermediate cartridge that are more mechanically accurate than the AK platform, the average shooter, shooting off-hand at a semi rapid pace, we'll say one round a second, is not going to notice much of a difference (if any) in accuracy at combat distances. Most decent AKs will shoot 4MOA, the better ones being sub 2MOA, and even at 4MOA, at 300 yards, that's a little over 12 inches. I don't know about you guys, but where I come from 12 inches is minute of man all day long.

Some people (not saying it's any of you guys) get so hung up on the accuracy of a rifle, but unless your purpose for the rifle is to shoot little tiny groups from really from away, all the while sitting at a bench with your rifle in a totally stable rest, then who cares?

-Fred

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Old 10-04-2011, 06:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by FCross7 View Post
People always compare the accuracy of this gun to that gun, but let's be realistic. While there are other semi-automatic rifles chambered in an intermediate cartridge that are more mechanically accurate than the AK platform, the average shooter, shooting off-hand at a semi rapid pace, we'll say one round a second, is not going to notice much of a difference (if any) in accuracy at combat distances. Most decent AKs will shoot 4MOA, the better ones being sub 2MOA, and even at 4MOA, at 300 yards, that's a little over 12 inches. I don't know about you guys, but where I come from 12 inches is minute of man all day long.

Some people (not saying it's any of you guys) get so hung up on the accuracy of a rifle, but unless your purpose for the rifle is to shoot little tiny groups from really from away, all the while sitting at a bench with your rifle in a totally stable rest, then who cares?

-Fred
Probably the best thing I've heard all day. For me whether or not a rifle can shoot a small group at say 200 yards is irrelevant. As long as it can touch somebody out at that distance is all that matters to me. I don't do bench rest shooting or extreme precision shooting. I do off hand shooting and just shooting at targets like tin cans, clay pidgeons, rotten fruit/vegtables, and ocassionaly paper targets at various ranges, but no more than 150-200 yards. I'm not a very serious marksman I just enjoy shooting/plinking instead of trying to get very small groups at various distances. I rather be more realistic than try to implement a firearm in an extreme curcumstance.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:30 PM   #20
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Hornady has some new steel cased ammo with the Vmax bullets that are supposed to be match grade. I have not had a chance to try them yet in my Mini 30.

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