.308 or 7.62x39? - Page 2
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:13 PM   #11
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If the SHTF I want EVERY shot to count. That won't happen in a 7.62x39, and it doesn't have to, if all you are concerned about is the price of ammo. My AR in .308 or .223 will hit a human torso at up to 500 meters away - first time, every time. I just hope the folks shooting at me are using an AK or any other gun chambered in 7.62x39. That will allow me the time to zero in on them.

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Old 05-13-2008, 09:27 PM   #12
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If the SHTF I want EVERY shot to count. That won't happen in a 7.62x39, and it doesn't have to, if all you are concerned about is the price of ammo. My AR in .308 or .223 will hit a human torso at up to 500 meters away - first time, every time. I just hope the folks shooting at me are using an AK or any other gun chambered in 7.62x39. That will allow me the time to zero in on them.

I agree with you RL357Mag 100% you can't go wrong with .308 for long range and .223 for short to medium range
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:31 PM   #13
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I agree with you RL357Mag 100% you can't go wrong with .308 for long range and .223 for short to medium range

Thanks for the support! lol Topics like these always generate animosity due to personal preferances. Personally I don't own an AK, I have an SKS and I'm not impressed by it. It's reliable and fun, that's it. When I buy a gun, it's with the intention of making the smallest possible groups within my own abilities. The AK and SKS deprive me of that capability due to their inherent inaccuracy. For hunting I wouldn't hesitate to use my SKS, but I mostly target shoot now. My recent AR acquisitions have turned my long-held belief that extreme accuracy can only be achieved with a bolt-action rifle, on end. I can honestly say that both the .223 and ,308 AR's I have are just as accurate, if not more so, than any of my bolt action rifles. If the SHTF I want accuracy and one-shot kill capability at long range. For short range work I have handguns!
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:06 AM   #14
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If you have your heart set on an 7.62x39 AK variant, one thing to consider is the magazines. Standard AK mags will NOT fit a Saiga. I had one, I know this for sure. They CAN be made to fit, but it requires some welding and grinding. I modified five 30 round mags for the Saiga, but sold them with the gun many years ago. Also, once modified, they won't fit standard AK's anymore.
I currently have a Bulgarian made Arsenal SLR-95, it looks kind of stupid with the plastic thumbhole post-ban type stock, but it has a milled receiver and takes standard AK mags. I have a collection of 30's, 40's, 20's (Tankers) and a pre-ban 75 round drum. All of which work perfectly in the Arsenal. BTW, when I bought it new, it was under $300.

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Old 05-14-2008, 01:32 PM   #15
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OK, I'm sold. I want a Saiga (Russian-made AK variant; looks like the best deal since the nickel cup of coffee. NIB for under $300).

Next question: .308 or 7.62x39? I need some help here.

I don't hunt; the weapon will be for defense only, especially in case of disaster of one kind or another (SHTF, e.g.). I live in a large city (Dallas), if that's relevant.

Here's what I know: the .308 has greater recoil, but also greater range and hits with more authority. The AK round has less range, less power, and less recoil, and is the ammunition the gun was designed for.

Here's what I don't know (sorry if I sound like Glenn Beck): relative accuracy; price and availability of ammo; if the .308 is significantly harder on the gun and will shorten its working life.

Comments? Advice? Insults? Whatever you've got...

Thanks.

Well I thought we might like to return to your points and here is my thoughts for what they are worth. Given the reason you what an AK derivative and where you reside (I love Dallas, know it quite well), and you are looking for a rifle for defence then unquestionably you should go for the 762x39, it's an intermediate cartridge and was designed to replace the larger rifle cartridges.

It ticks all the boxes, lighter to carry and you can carry therefore more ammunition, super to 450 metres, which is all you will require. During the war the Germans would have completely rearmed with SG43's with the intermediate 7.92 mm but for the fact they where sitting on millions of standard 7.92 mm!

Zappa's right you don't want anything that will not accept anything other that standard AK/AKM magazines, it's just going to make life difficult...

Every SKS and AK I have ever picked up abroad has shot extremely well, and I have never experienced his problems, so I can not agree with RL357Mag. Guys I work with, who operate convoys duties in the Middle East have the opportunity to privately purchase anything they want, most stick, or return to the AKM.

If you have ready access to ammunition in sustainable quantities than go with the 7.62x39, with the intermediate cartridge you have the best of both worlds...if it was my life anyway.................................
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:25 PM   #16
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All I'm saying is that if you want accuracy, don't buy an AK. The question then is "What's good accuracy?" IMO it's 1"moa and less capability. My SKS cannot even achieve that level of accuracy, and by virtue of it's much longer barrel is a more accurate platform than any AK. If all you want is a cheap, reliable short range defense rifle, they are fine. I always wanted an AK, but after doing the research and discovering that 2-4" at 100yds is considered very good accuracy, I opted against it. That kind of accuracy is on par with an M1 Carbine, and they were designed to replace the .45 1911 Colt for perimeter guard.

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Old 05-14-2008, 03:27 PM   #17
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You can only speak as you find, no military rifle will give you tack driving accuracy (leaving spe******t applications apart of course) because casualties are better than dead combatents, but lets not get into the military logistics game.

I have found both weapons and calibre to be excellent for what they set out to do. If I get the opportunity to work in East Africa again, the choice is the G3 or AK47, I would choose the AK47 (hold on nothing wrong with the G3 so please don't jump all over me!)........I think the intermediate cartridge a good compromise between the 7.62 NATO and the 5.56mm......

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Old 05-18-2008, 02:29 AM   #18
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[QUOTE=Boris;23991]You can only speak as you find, no military rifle will give you tack driving accuracy (leaving spe******t applications apart of course) because casualties are better than dead combatents, but lets not get into the military logistics game.

Hey...whatever works for you. Personally I want as accurate a rifle as I can possible get. When the SHTF I won't be in the military, and I might be fighting the military! If the military prefers to wound instead of kill, that's ok with me! I want to kill if it comes down to shooting, and I want to do it expending as little ammo as possible since I won't have a re-supply line following me. Ammo is expensive and heavy, every shot should count. AK47 is a CQB weapon, not long range. AR-15 does both. I prefer not to wait until I see the "whites of their eyes".

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Old 05-31-2008, 04:45 AM   #19
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Default 308 vs 762X39

The 308 is in fact the US version of the 762x39. It is an excellent self defense cal. We in fact practice cutting the sign posts in half at the range.

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Old 06-01-2008, 12:38 AM   #20
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If the SHTF I want EVERY shot to count. That won't happen in a 7.62x39, and it doesn't have to, if all you are concerned about is the price of ammo. My AR in .308 or .223 will hit a human torso at up to 500 meters away - first time, every time. I just hope the folks shooting at me are using an AK or any other gun chambered in 7.62x39. That will allow me the time to zero in on them.
Amen to that!! my AR in 5.56 NATO and my Remington 700 LTR with leupold mil-dot reticle scope will keep the non-riflemen at bay.
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