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andrewfs · 08-12-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgecummins01

It has the lines of a John and Caleb Vincent rifle, but I don’t think it is, that would have been a later time frame. The piece that is missing was probably a German silver inlay; this was to protect the wood area behind the nipple from the burning effects of the cap. IMO it is an unmolested piece. Don’t try to refinish it! As far as the appraisal I think it is a little low. You also may want to go to muzzleloading forum.com and post there.

I have been only able to find a very small amount of info about the Vincents, they made guns from the late 1820's to 1898. Father and Son. I found a picture of a replica of their work and the stock looks exactly like one of theirs. I am very interested in what the appraiser from Shiloh Appraisers says, if he answers at all. The former owner of this gun told me that her Ancestor lived anytime from the 1820's until the 1880's and he was considered as a "wealthy" farmer. This rifle could have been made by them. There is a place where burned wood is still in the rifle, right in back of the space that is behind the hammer. I suppose it is possible that that whole area has burned out. I can take this small piece out and put it back in. Looks like a small piece of charcoal.

andrewfs · 08-15-2009, 12:18 PM

I had another answer of the other forum telling me my rifle more than likely is a Bown and Son which was made in Pittsburg at their Enterprise Gun Works. I did a search and found information on them. The made these rifles then sold them to other retailers who put their own hardware on the rifles. They made and sold about 4000 rifles a year at their factory, started around 1848 and continued for about 40 yrs. Here are two pictures of their model 4 and model 6 rifles

**W. C. Quantrill** · 08-16-2009, 01:58 AM

Howdy Hawg.....

5 will get your 10 that that is a late Caleb Vincent rifle. The lock bolt escutcheon, is definitely Caleb Vincent, the german silver barrel pin plates are Caleb Vincent, the lines are Caleb Vincent.

Good thread, I found the forum looking for pictures of the Vincent pewter inlays.

Got pics of that Hawken yet, Hawg?

andrewfs · 08-16-2009, 02:24 AM

The original owner has his initials stamped into the top of the barrel, otherwise there is no script or writing on the rifle. It has a lot of fancy scroll work along the barrel but most of it is worn off. The plate? behind the hammer has what looks like a deer in it, I am not sure of that tho. I have no real idea of what all the things you are talking about are. I am a neophyte when it comes to percussion rifles, or for that matter, any old gun. I never even dreamed I would own such a gun. I am thankful for every ones input,even tho some of it is contradictory to other posts. Good men can disagree. I am going to keep on reading all I can about all these different terms and kinds of rifles. The idea of it being a Bown is because of two pictures I came across while searching that show a model # 4 and a model #6 that they made. This fits right in the time frame that the two sisters who gave me the rifle knew of. It has been in their family since it was new, the man who did own it, Stephen Thomas Stutler was their great(4X) Uncle on their mothers side. They said he got the gun right around 1848 and this is close to when Bown had his factory in Pittsburgh.
Like I said tho, I really do not have a firm grip on this belief.

**W. C. Quantrill** · 08-16-2009, 03:02 AM

On the lock cheek on left side of the rifle across on the other side from the hammer, there is a small shield that has a bolt through it. That is the lock bolt shield, definitely a Caleb Vincent touch. On the forearm, one of the differences of Bown and Vincent is that Bown used barrel keys and Vincent used a round steel pin through those nickel silver shields. Also the scroll pewter inlay behind the hammer that is missing on this rifle was a Vincent trademark. This is a sweetie, its a keeper.

andrewfs · 08-16-2009, 03:42 AM

Thanks again for your input, some more information that may help, the overall length of the gun is just over 49 inches. The barrel is 34 and 9/16th inches long. Did you notice the 7 sided bore?

That is the rifling on this gun each of the 7 edges of the inside has a groove cut into it that runs the full length of the bore. Like I said, I knew absolutely nothing about it until I got it. One sister bought if from the other and gave it to me. She says I am as close to family that they have left. I was totally blown away when the sister who had possession out of the blue told me to be expecting a package from USP and sure enough it came three days later on a Monday afternoon. I like your help and I am going to call it the Vincent Rifle.
Have you ever seen a bore fixed like this? I never knew that rifling was done anything like this. OH, my deceased father in law is a Vincent from Colorado..so he would have been proud of this rifle. Anything more you notice about the rifle I will be more than happy to know! Thanks again, Andy

**W. C. Quantrill** · 08-17-2009, 08:54 PM

Cant see the rifling from here. Sounds real interesting though.

skullcrusher · 08-17-2009, 09:46 PM

The Vincent rifle was born in Vincent, OH. Check out the member map. Waahaa, Vincent.

6 miles or so from W. VA. Don't know if that is a Vincent. If it is, I believe it is worth more than a Brown, no? I don't know for sure, so don't take my word.