Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Blackpowder & Musket > Buddy of mine wants to build a cannon

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-18-2012, 03:58 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Scratchammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Memphis,The volunteer state
Posts: 1,466
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 159

Default Buddy of mine wants to build a cannon

So a buddy of mine wants to build a black powder cannon with 4130 chromoly cold rolled steel tubing measured at 18" long, 1" in caliber, & a 1/4" wall. He said he wants to replicate loads similar to that of a swivel gun but he said he's not stupid enough to hold it. He wants to use a solid round ball & ffg pyrodex. How many grains should can that tube handle safely?

__________________

"THE SIERRA JUST HOTEL TANGO FOXTROT -OVER"

MALO PERICULOSAM LIBERTATEM QUAM QUIETUM SERVITIUM

Scratchammo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 04-18-2012, 07:33 PM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
hiwall's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cleator,AZ
Posts: 3,259
Liked 698 Times on 448 Posts
Likes Given: 226

Default

How are you plugging the end of the tube? That is the area of most concern. Cannon builders frown on welded on ends.

__________________

Just walking on the edge of of my grave.

hiwall is offline  
towboater Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 07:42 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 804
Liked 26 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 67

Default

Your friend might want to check FFL regulation.

__________________
Ranger-6 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 09:33 PM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
purehavoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Not where I wanna be
Posts: 4,717
Liked 1116 Times on 725 Posts
Likes Given: 1990

Default

Out of personal experience I dont think 1/4" wall thickness it heavy enough for that kind of load shooting a projectile .
My uncle has one he build its more like 3/8" thickness about 18" long , we load it up jab newpaper in it and pack that ol girl tight with a 1" oak dowel and rubber mallet , stand back 20 or so ft and pull the drop cord . KAAAAABBBOOOOMMMMM it has 3 legs about 8" long with 2" flat circle bases . you should see what it does to a truck bed when it goes off back there . 3 real nice perfect circles about 1/8" deep . We make sure its on the ground when it goes off now

__________________
purehavoc is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 10:03 PM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Scratchammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Memphis,The volunteer state
Posts: 1,466
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 159

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiwall View Post
How are you plugging the end of the tube? That is the area of most concern. Cannon builders frown on welded on ends.
He's gonna have it threaded for a 1" screw plug.
__________________

"THE SIERRA JUST HOTEL TANGO FOXTROT -OVER"

MALO PERICULOSAM LIBERTATEM QUAM QUIETUM SERVITIUM

Scratchammo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 10:07 PM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Scratchammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Memphis,The volunteer state
Posts: 1,466
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 159

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger-6 View Post
Your friend might want to check FFL regulation.
I looked around & couldn't find any FFL regs for cannons using black powder.
__________________

"THE SIERRA JUST HOTEL TANGO FOXTROT -OVER"

MALO PERICULOSAM LIBERTATEM QUAM QUIETUM SERVITIUM

Scratchammo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 10:23 PM   #7
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 16,327
Liked 8393 Times on 3631 Posts
Likes Given: 1294

Default

4130 is a decent material- it is used for modern rifle barrels.

As indicated, the issue is not so much the material itself, but how the breechplug will be held in place- and welding is not generally a good idea. Also, consider how the trunnions are attached- you do not want to be changing the heat treatment of the steel.

If it uses loose powder and ball, and does not use modern primers, ATF does not care- it is not a firearm (it is an antique- even if you made it today)

The load will not be as critical as you might think- what does not get burned in a black powder barrel gets blown out as unburned powder. So long as you use black powder (or a BP substitute) and the projectile is FIRMLY AGAINST THE CHARGE- it would be hard to burst a barrel.

I made one cannon as a present for a friend (hey, he bought a boat- needed something to repel pirates, OK?) THAT one started as a 3 inch rod of bronze, 4 inch length over chamber left full sized, then tapered down to 1.5 inch OD barrel, smooth bored to 0.75 inches.

Proof fired that with 200 grains of ffG, and a 1 oz lead slug. Had touchhole, used cannon fuse (a LONG length of fuse!) 4 proof shots, no changes in exterior dimensions. He mainly uses it as signal gun, 75 gr ffG, paper wadding.

BTW, these folks are firing BOWLING BALLS using cut off oxygen tanks. Those are made out of (I think) 30 CrMo, have a wall thickness about 5.7-6mm.

__________________

What we have heah is.... failure to communicate.

c3shooter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 10:26 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Scratchammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Memphis,The volunteer state
Posts: 1,466
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 159

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by purehavoc View Post
Out of personal experience I dont think 1/4" wall thickness it heavy enough for that kind of load shooting a projectile .
My uncle has one he build its more like 3/8" thickness about 18" long , we load it up jab newpaper in it and pack that ol girl tight with a 1" oak dowel and rubber mallet , stand back 20 or so ft and pull the drop cord . KAAAAABBBOOOOMMMMM it has 3 legs about 8" long with 2" flat circle bases . you should see what it does to a truck bed when it goes off back there . 3 real nice perfect circles about 1/8" deep . We make sure its on the ground when it goes off now
Noted. I guess we'll have to start with small charges & measure for chamber expansion along the way.
__________________

"THE SIERRA JUST HOTEL TANGO FOXTROT -OVER"

MALO PERICULOSAM LIBERTATEM QUAM QUIETUM SERVITIUM

Scratchammo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 10:44 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Scratchammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Memphis,The volunteer state
Posts: 1,466
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 159

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
4130 is a decent material- it is used for modern rifle barrels.

As indicated, the issue is not so much the material itself, but how the breechplug will be held in place- and welding is not generally a good idea. Also, consider how the trunnions are attached- you do not want to be changing the heat treatment of the steel.

If it uses loose powder and ball, and does not use modern primers, ATF does not care- it is not a firearm (it is an antique- even if you made it today)

The load will not be as critical as you might think- what does not get burned in a black powder barrel gets blown out as unburned powder. So long as you use black powder (or a BP substitute) and the projectile is FIRMLY AGAINST THE CHARGE- it would be hard to burst a barrel.

I made one cannon as a present for a friend (hey, he bought a boat- needed something to repel pirates, OK?) THAT one started as a 3 inch rod of bronze, 4 inch length over chamber left full sized, then tapered down to 1.5 inch OD barrel, smooth bored to 0.75 inches.

Proof fired that with 200 grains of ffG, and a 1 oz lead slug. Had touchhole, used cannon fuse (a LONG length of fuse!) 4 proof shots, no changes in exterior dimensions. He mainly uses it as signal gun, 75 gr ffG, paper wadding.

BTW, these folks are firing BOWLING BALLS using cut off oxygen tanks. Those are made out of (I think) 30 CrMo, have a wall thickness about 5.7-6mm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIMNdobqUH8
HOLY CRAP!!! I need that

Yep, it'll be loose powder & ball (or other stuff). I talked him out of welding a plug. I'll have to post videos of this thing once it's completed.
__________________

"THE SIERRA JUST HOTEL TANGO FOXTROT -OVER"

MALO PERICULOSAM LIBERTATEM QUAM QUIETUM SERVITIUM

Scratchammo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:37 PM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
W. C. Quantrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Between Paradise and the Garden of Eden
Posts: 566
Liked 36 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

There are numerous articles on building and firing cannons on the searches. The rule of thumb on cast cannons was that the barrel was as thick as the bore. Everything about a cannon is in relationship to the bore diameter. Even the wheels are functions of bore diameter. There are also some books available that give specs on the cannons.

I suggest that you all get into a bunch more research before you do this. The info is online.

The amount of powder is also a function of the weight of the ball. Too much or too little and you can get some really high pressures. Go to the cannon pages where they shoot the cannons and talk to those guys.

I saw one cannon that had the breech plug threaded in like a black powder rifle, It should be threaded in at least as far as the diameter of the bore, then it could be welded by a certified pressure vessel welder who would heat it to 600 degrees and then weld it, then pack it in ashes and let it cool very slowly to preserve the integrity of the weld.

__________________

NRA Life
Whittington Center Life
Times are tough, ammo is expensive, there will be no warning shots.


Last edited by W. C. Quantrill; 07-07-2012 at 08:49 PM.
W. C. Quantrill is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
cannon slim325 NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion 6 02-22-2012 02:51 PM
Range buddy? PowerViolence Range Report 0 10-11-2011 07:15 PM
Hunting Buddy ! 303tom Hunting Forum 2 09-04-2011 12:03 PM
Lloyd and the buddy gun sarge_257 Training & Safety 2 11-30-2010 10:36 AM
Benning Boy.....this is for you buddy! IGETEVEN The Club House 10 07-24-2009 02:11 PM