Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Blackpowder & Musket > 44 Remington

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-07-2012, 12:50 PM   #31
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: armadale,western australia
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W. C. Quantrill View Post
Anyone shooting a .44 cal 1858 Remington?




I'm loading this one with 35 grains of 3f and a grease cookie and a .457 round ball. It shaves just a wee shaving,,and it shoot hard. I would put this in the class of a light .45 Colt load.




This is a light weight Mexican Double loop, Cheyenne pattern holster that I threw together one evening to have something to carry the 58 with.

I need to repeat that this is a serious, accurate pistol plenty capable of shooting through a person. I think we missed out on some interesting times, fellers.
the 1858 remington is my all time favorite pistola that is a nice one Bill.
Bernie
__________________
windwalker_2012au is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 12:51 PM   #32
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: wyoming
Posts: 1,799
Liked 61 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

Wild Bill was well known to have been cool under fire. The exception was when he killed his best friend in Dodge City. You must understand Bill was a veteran. Soldiers of the day moved forward to battle with cocked and primed firearms. They were not trained in NRA safe range firearms useage. Early firearms did not have fast flip saftey levers to activate the fire. "cocked and ready" was the creed of the day. Long range pistol shooting had developed in to a shooting form in Jefferson Co. Ky. following the Civil War. I have seen many pictures from these matches. It seems the handguns were often held with the butt resting on the forearm for long range fire. This was long before Deputy Weaver and the 1911 pistol.

__________________
Durangokid is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 02:09 PM   #33
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
W. C. Quantrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Between Paradise and the Garden of Eden
Posts: 566
Liked 36 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

The wild west days ran from the 1880's until about 1910. It was all a part of this country. Not only were they skilled at long range shooting,,,cocked and ready was the name of the game, Hickock was marshal of Hays, Kansas. Lots of people died by the gun in Hays. Tutt cocked his pistol before he holstered it. Hickock had his in his sash, as he did not have a holster. Present day thoughts and NRA safety as you mention, was not part of the plan.

Growing up, we shot at distances that are not considered today. We did not think twice about shooting at a rabbit at 100 yards with bare sights with a pump action .22. I have seen my Gpa roll jackrabbits many times near 100 yards with his woodsman pistol. They all carried guns.

Hays is 34 miles from here.

Got interrupted--had to go help the wife--When I was a kid, the phone would ring and gma would say, gpa said to come running. They lived 1/2 mile up the hill. I'd grab the rifle and take off. I would get up here to gpas and he would have a plan, maybe he would have seen geese on the pond or the like, and we'd head out to sneak up on the pond. The plan would be to come in under the dam and sneak up the back side, each of us shoot a goose in the head and when they flushed, he'd get a couple on the fly. At the bottom he'd say, you got a shell in the barrel? Check it. yup,,,,ok cock it and be real quiet, and we'd crawl up that bank real slow and poke our gun barrels out thru the grass and weeds and we'd get us a goose or three.

The ways of the old days die slow, especially in this country. I spent my first 4 years of school in a one room country school. 8 grades in one room, we all had guns. Distance was part of the game.

Durango, I have a set of Lee blocks on the way, we'll see what we can do when they get here next week.

Bernie, those guns come on sale a couple times a year from our big store Cabelas for about $175US. Are you permitted to have them in OZ?

__________________

NRA Life
Whittington Center Life
Times are tough, ammo is expensive, there will be no warning shots.


Last edited by W. C. Quantrill; 07-07-2012 at 02:41 PM.
W. C. Quantrill is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 07:36 PM   #34
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Gonzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,621
Liked 248 Times on 193 Posts
Likes Given: 95

Default

Just for the hell of it, this is the rest of the story, - Wiki

History:
Tutt and Hickok, both gamblers, had at one point been friends, despite the fact that Tutt was a Confederate Army veteran, and Hickok had been a scout for the Union Army. Davis Tutt originally came from Marion County, Arkansas, where his family had been involved in the Tutt-Everett War, during which several of his family members had been killed. He had come west following the Civil War. Hickok had been born in Illinois, coming west after mistakenly thinking he had killed a man in drunken brawl.
The eventual falling out between Hickok and Tutt reportedly occurred over women. There were reports that Hickok had fathered an illegitimate child with Tutt's sister; while Tutt had been observed paying a great deal of attention to Wild Bill's paramour, Susanna Moore. When Hickok started to refuse to play in any card game that included Tutt, the cowboy retaliated by openly supporting other local card-players with advice and money in a dedicated attempt to bankrupt Hickok.

The Card Game

The simmering conflict eventually came to a head during a game of poker at the Lyon House Hotel (now called the "Old Southern Hotel"). Hickok was playing against several other local gamblers while Tutt stood nearby, loaning money as needed and "encouraging [them], coaching [them] on how to beat Hickok."[2] The game was being played for high stakes, and Hickok had done well, winning about $200 ($3,080 in 2010 dollars) of what was essentially Tutt's money. Irritated by his losses and unwilling to admit defeat, Tutt reminded Hickok of a $40 debt from a past horse trade. Hickok shrugged and paid the sum, but Tutt was unappeased. He then claimed that Hickok owed him an additional $35 from a past poker game. "I think you are wrong, Dave," said Hickok. "It's only twenty-five dollars. I have a memorandum in my pocket."[3]
Tutt had a large following at the Lyon House and, encouraged by these armed associates, he decided to take the opportunity to humiliate his enemy. In the midst of their argument over the $10 difference in the debt (and while Hickok was still playing poker), Tutt grabbed one of Hickok's most prized possessions off the table, his Waltham Repeater gold pocket watch, and announced that he would keep the watch as collateral until Hickok paid the full $35.[3] Hickok was shocked and livid, but but being out numbered and out gunned, he was unwilling to resort to violence at the time. Stone-faced with anger, he quietly demanded that Tutt put the watch back on the table. Tutt reportedly replied only with an "ugly grin" and left the premises with the watch.[3]
Aside from publicly humiliating Hickok and taking his property, Tutt's demand for collateral on a debt from a fellow professional card player implied he thought Hickok was an insolvent gambler trying to avoid his debts. To ignore such an insult from Tutt would have ruined Hickok's career as a gambler in Springfield, which was reportedly his only source of income. Adding further insult to injury, groups of Tutt's friends reportedly continued to mock Hickok after the initial confrontation, baiting him with talk of the pocket watch to see if he could be goaded into drawing in anger so he could be shot down by the whole group. After several days of this, Hickok's patience was at the breaking point. When a group of Tutt's supporters at the Lyon House mocked Hickok and announcing they'd heard Tutt was planning to wear the watch "in the middle of the town square" the next day, Hickok reportedly replied, "He shouldn't come across that square unless dead men can walk."[3] Having apparently made up his mind, Hickok returned to his room to clean, oil and reload his pistols in anticipation of a confrontation with Tutt the next morning.

Failed Negotiations
Although Tutt had humiliated his rival, Hickok's ultimatum essentially forced his hand. To go back on his very public boast would make everyone think he was afraid of Hickok, and so long as he intended to stay in Springfield, he could not afford to show cowardice. The next day, he arrived at the town square around 10 a.m. with Hickok's watch openly hanging from his waist pocket. The word quickly spread that Tutt was making good on his pledge to humiliate Hickok, reaching Hickok's own ears within an hour.
According to the testimony of Eli Armstrong (and supported by two other witnesses, John Orr and Oliver Scott), Hickok met Tutt at the square and discussed the terms of the watch's return. Tutt now demanded $45. Armstrong tried to convince Tutt to accept the original $35 and negotiate for the rest later, but Hickok was still adamant that he only owed $25. Tutt then held the watch in front of Hickok and stated he would accept no less than $45. Both then said they didn't want to fight and they went for a drink together. Tutt soon left, however, returning once again to the square, still wearing the watch.

The shooting is in my earlier post page 3

My copy/paste is going so you'll have wiki the rest if interested.

Moral of the story - Always pay your debts & Never grab another mans watch ! ( or hat )

__________________

Last edited by Gonzilla; 07-07-2012 at 07:59 PM.
Gonzilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 07:43 PM   #35
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Hawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Heidelberg,MS
Posts: 1,399
Liked 76 Times on 52 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

Nobody knows for sure what Hickok used that day. Some say his Navy, some say a Dragoon and some say a S&W .32. The only thing they all agree on is he propped across his left arm.

__________________

DEO VINDICE

http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

Hawg is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 07:56 PM   #36
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
W. C. Quantrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Between Paradise and the Garden of Eden
Posts: 566
Liked 36 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

And Tutt is still dead.

__________________

NRA Life
Whittington Center Life
Times are tough, ammo is expensive, there will be no warning shots.

W. C. Quantrill is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #37
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Been thinking about getting a cap and ball pistol for awhile. Any thoughts on which ones are good for a beginner. Are they hard to load and shoot? Do you clean them any differently for smokeless powder guns?

__________________
TroyS is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 08:18 PM   #38
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
W. C. Quantrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Between Paradise and the Garden of Eden
Posts: 566
Liked 36 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

Troy, That looks like a half a dozen questions there.

Long story short, you have about 2 choices. Uberti or Pietta. Uberti is more expensive usually. Pietta is probably more commonly used. They are BLACK POWDER ONLY. You really need to understand the methods of using and shooting black powder, as it is not nearly the same as smokeless. DO NOT EVEN DREAM OF PUTTING SMOKELESS POWDER IN ONE OF THESE GUNS. Hard to load? --no, they load just like any other muzzle loader. You put a measured amount of powder in each cylinder, set a wad on top of the powder, and press a ball in on top. They shoot just about like any other single action pistol would in .45 Long Colt.

These guns are Black Powder Only guns, they have to be cleaned like any other black powder gun, they need to be cleaned well with hot soapy water, then dried well, and oiled. Not really like a smokeless gun.

__________________

NRA Life
Whittington Center Life
Times are tough, ammo is expensive, there will be no warning shots.

W. C. Quantrill is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 10:01 PM   #39
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
towboater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewares,Ky
Posts: 3,585
Liked 1719 Times on 894 Posts
Likes Given: 3644

Default

I think the 1858 Remington is best for the beginner. Cabela's puts em on sale from time to time for $179.99 I've bought both, the long and short Remingtons, and an 1860 Colt at that price.

__________________
towboater is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 10:12 PM   #40
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
towboater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewares,Ky
Posts: 3,585
Liked 1719 Times on 894 Posts
Likes Given: 3644

Default

Here is the 1860.



Here are the 1858 Remmies.

Short


Long

__________________
towboater is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Remington 770 vs. Remington Model 700 ndtiger General Rifle Discussion 18 08-29-2012 03:54 AM
the difference between a remington 770 action and a remington 700 action is??? Ryno702 General Rifle Discussion 24 11-28-2011 12:57 AM
1903s: Remington Arms or Remington Typewriter? RufusTFirefly Curio & Relic Discussion 4 10-28-2011 05:49 AM
Remington Model 760 in 35 Remington Leatherlung General Rifle Discussion 2 12-07-2010 07:43 PM
Remington 03-A3 Halschick General Rifle Discussion 3 06-25-2009 03:49 AM