What's your thoughts on the future of the .22 mag? - Page 21
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion > What's your thoughts on the future of the .22 mag?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-01-2012, 01:05 PM   #201
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
big shrek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 1,310
Liked 72 Times on 66 Posts
Likes Given: 539

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by big shrek View Post
The Keltec PMR-30
Also available in carbine version, the RMR-30


History Lesson...
George Kellgren is the lead guy at Kel-Tec (hence the name KEL-Tec...lol)
He was also the head guy at Grendel...(again, hence the name GRENdel...)

Grendel made one of the most successful semi-auto .22WMR's...so good the FBI even looked it over as a potential issue-backup.
This was the P-30 pistol...
There were 3 styles...the P-30 short pistol, the P-31 Oversized pistol...and the R-31 carbine.


Fun stuff Note the similarity to the R-31...

Ok, Then Bill Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 KILLED every high-cap mag (15+rounds)...until it sunsetted in 2004...
and pretty much KILLED every company that specialized in weapons that had 16 rounds or more capacity...hence the expiration of Grendel.

In 1995...George created Kel-Tec...and made the Basic Pistols that he was making before the ban, that made bookoo $$$ like the P-11 & P3...
and has since created some really successful weapons since, and he's lived happily ever after...history lesson over.



Now, what you REALLY need to know about .22WMR Semi-auto weapons...
I don't care WHO makes 'em...the main issue with 'em is the round itself...it simply ain't made for semi-auto use.
The fact that George figured out a way to make it work MOST OF THE TIME, in TWO separate styles of receiver, is nothing short of amazing.
I own a P-30 & an R-31...BOTH had to have some/most of the Goldenloki Tweaks before being Reliable...
http://www.goldenloki.com/gunsmith/keltec/fullrp.htm
and they have to be cleaned like AR-15's...meaning, after EVERY time you fire it, you clean it at the end of the day. No Exceptions. Ever.
If you go to the range...clean it after...if you go hunting and only fire ONE shot, clean it after...it'll save you a TON of grief.
Only Use Appropriate Gun Cleaners...as in the Old Fashioned styles...like Hoppe's & Outer's...plastic Melts when you use Brake Cleaner, DUH.
Let my experiences give you relief

Do those things, and they're perfectly reliable....Don't, and they act like Jam-O-Matics. Its that simple.

From what I gather, the other options in this category also suffer from the same headaches...
The AMT Automag II, when it first came out, I thought COOL and bought one...shortly thereafter, I wished I hadn't.
Reportedly, they also benefit from the Goldenloki tips...but as they're only 10-rds per mag...kind of a waste.
Same for the Excel Accelerator...only a 10-rd mag...and clunky as heck.
The Ruger 1022M is now DEAD...but lives on under the Magnum Research & Volquartsen banners. Ruger sold them the rights.
Ruger stopped & started production on the 1022M FIVE separate times before giving up...they just couldn't do it right.
That's why the MR & VQ versions cost $800+...they did it right, but that version is Expensive to get right.

The big benefit of .22WMR is Hi-Capacity...to make a pistol that DOESN'T take advantage of the power & small size of the round, is simply stupid.
The Grendels shared mags...reportedly, so do the PMR & RMR's 30-rounders, Smart Move!!

They're not planning on making NY/NJ/Cali/Ill/HI versions, you don't like it, get rid of the Democrats & change the bad gun laws.
Better Yet, Tar & Feather all Democrats!!
Ok, any questions??
__________________

Calico Specialist
Marlin Specialist
I'm not just Trigger Happy, I'm Trigger Ecstatic!!

big shrek is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 03:49 AM   #202
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Gonzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,654
Liked 250 Times on 195 Posts
Likes Given: 105

Default

I have seen VQ work and the tolerances are exactly what you'd expect from $1K & up rifle. I was really hoping Ruger could get the job done as well as their 10/22 line but evidently they couldn't handle the pressure.

I suppose a good try doesn't mean as much when millions go down the tube.

__________________
Gonzilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 06:23 PM   #203
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,170
Liked 5733 Times on 3359 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/how-do-i-build-belt-fed-upper-receiver-non-5-56-a-61725/

This makes me wonder about a .22 magnum, belt-fed, semi-automatic AR. I mean, the traditional complaint on .22 mags is the magazine and the rimmed cartridge, right? A belt or links wouldn't care if the cartridge was rimmed, right?

THAT could make me reconsider .22 mag.
__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 07:11 PM   #204
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 474
Liked 41 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 230

Default

I have a 79 year old young guy friend that thinks the 22 WMR is the best thing since ice cream was discovered. He had an order on the Kel-Tec PMR-30 for over a year. Due to a number of issues the PMR-30 has been really slow in getting out to the gun shops and he really wanted something to go with his 22 mag rifle. So he bought an Excelerator pistol that I had warned him was large and heavy. Well he found that out after shooting it a few times and realized that with an 8" barrel and weighing about 3 1/4 pounds that it was a monster and holstering it would not be fun. Anyway an AMT 22 Automag showed up at a gun show which his son attended and got a business card from, my friend called the dealer and they worked it out to get it to the gun shop he got the Excelerator pistol from and they did a swap plus a little cash. Long story short, the AMT is an early model and is real finicky on the type of ammo but with the right type it does great. But the thing I discovered is that some of the problem lies in the design of the magazine. The magazine has full length groves in front of it to straighten the front of the rounds but no guide groves on the rear and this allows the rounds to stack in a zig-zag at the rims. I've seen this to be the issue when the slide strips a round from the magazine it slames the bullet nose into the edge of either lower lip of the chamber. I think that if the magazines were made like the Ruger 22 pistol magazines that most any 22 WMR ammo would work. I know that some of the fault in feeding the 22 WMR rounds is in the length of the cartridge, but I suspect that Kel-Tec has taken that into account, it's just too bad that they are unable to get the product out for the demand that's there.

__________________
Viking is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 07:17 PM   #205
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 474
Liked 41 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 230

Default

One thing I want to add is that firing a 22 WMR pistol when it's getting dark is like seeing a fire breathing dragon let loose. Being as the round is designed for rifles there is a significant amount of powder that's not burned in the barrel and therefore becomes a rather large fireball after the bullet exits the barrel.

__________________
Viking is offline  
Kevin Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 08:40 PM   #206
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Gonzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,654
Liked 250 Times on 195 Posts
Likes Given: 105

Default Fireball

You ought to see it in a derringer

42% one shot stopper which is impressive for a 40 gr.

__________________
Gonzilla is offline  
Kevin Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 11:40 PM   #207
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 474
Liked 41 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 230

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzilla View Post
You ought to see it in a derringer

42% one shot stopper which is impressive for a 40 gr.
I can see the headlines now, "Bad Guy Dies, Not From Bullet But From Inhaling A Fireball."
__________________
Viking is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:16 AM   #208
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
clr8ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Central NH
Posts: 3,287
Liked 988 Times on 651 Posts
Likes Given: 636

Default

Quote:
Ok, any questions??
Yes

Quote:
I don't care WHO makes 'em...the main issue with 'em is the round itself...it simply ain't made for semi-auto use.
Why not? Care to elaborate?
__________________
clr8ter is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:35 AM   #209
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: fordland,missouri
Posts: 11,099
Liked 862 Times on 648 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clr8ter

Yes

Why not? Care to elaborate?
Its a rimmed case so it wont feed right

God didnt make all men equal colonel Sam Colt did
__________________
Marlinman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 01:22 AM   #210
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,617
Liked 813 Times on 621 Posts
Likes Given: 125

Default

Usually the reason technicians give are the proportions of the case which make it hard to extract at very high velocity I think particularly because of the integral-formed rim which is nice and rounded.

__________________
HockaLouis is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
got another Marlin 22mag today.. fluffo63 .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion 5 08-09-2013 09:10 AM
22lr Vs 22mag rfr4evr .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion 14 09-30-2012 05:12 AM
Is the .22mag going away? northhike .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion 6 09-09-2010 10:49 PM
Something to keep in mind for the near future. opaww Politics, Religion and Controversy 1 03-23-2010 08:16 PM