[blucoondawg]

I bought a Savage bolt action a few years back, had it for about a year and sold it, wasn't impressed, I plan on picking up a 22mag auto someday. I hear people calling the 17 a "varmint rifle" all the time, they are convinced this gun is good out to 300 yds. I just have to laugh. If you are gonna shoot the 17 that far you better hope it isn't windy, and pray a mosquito doesn't fart with that little bullet.

[axxe55]

Originally Posted by blucoondawg

I bought a Savage bolt action a few years back, had it for about a year and sold it, wasn't impressed, I plan on picking up a 22mag auto someday. I hear people calling the 17 a "varmint rifle" all the time, they are convinced this gun is good out to 300 yds. I just have to laugh. If you are gonna shoot the 17 that far you better hope it isn't windy, and pray a mosquito doesn't fart with that little bullet.

i have shot my Savage M93r17 at over 200 yards and had very small groups. i don't think i would try for 300 yards and you are right about the wind, as it's very lightweight bullet and very sensitive to the wind. i have seen mine moved around 10-12 inches on the target when the wind picked up.

i will state my preference, for paper and target shooting, i would choose the 17HMR, as it's just a little small for shooting game larger than a squirrel or rabbit, and i can always use my 22 rifle for that. for wanting a little more edge in small animal hunting and those a little bit large and really more suited to hunting, i would go with the 22WMR over the 17HMR. these are just my obsevations and personal preferences.

[Gonzilla]

Axe55: details please - 10-12" @ 100 yds or 2 ? Estimate at crosswind speed ?

[akissboss]

I agree with the majority of the responders on this subject. I much prefer the .22mag for varmint control and i prefer to pack a mag cylinder in my single six. At least for the range of the pistol. Couldn't do that with the .17. I leave the .22 lr for just plinking and rat control.

[axxe55]

Originally Posted by Gonzilla

Axe55: details please - 10-12" @ 100 yds or 2 ? Estimate at crosswind speed ?

i have seen as much as 10-12" at 100 yards on a very windy day with wind gusts at 15-20 mph. this is one area where the 17HMR is just not suited for. if there is any wind blowing at all, i just don't even bother shooting mine.

[jim99689]

Absolutely...22Mag is here to stay..

[nwhunter]

Originally Posted by Hawg

Nah it aint goin nowheres. The .22 mag will still be around when the .17 is a distant memory

I agree!It's a much better survival round as well. It works well on larger game.
Bigger IS better sometimes

[cakesterkiller]

somebody (i wanna say khar arms) came out with a pistol in .22 mag.... it has 30 round mags and is supposed to perform like a .22 lr rifle... anyone know what pistol I'm talking about?

[blucoondawg]

Originally Posted by cakesterkiller

somebody (i wanna say khar arms) came out with a pistol in .22 mag.... it has 30 round mags and is supposed to perform like a .22 lr rifle... anyone know what pistol I'm talking about?

I didn't hear of that one but I know Kel-tec had one

[big shrek]

Originally Posted by cakesterkiller

somebody (i wanna say khar arms) came out with a pistol in .22 mag.... it has 30 round mags and is supposed to perform like a .22 lr rifle... anyone know what pistol I'm talking about?

The Keltec PMR-30
Also available in carbine version, the RMR-30


History Lesson...
George Kellgren is the lead guy at Kel-Tec (hence the name KEL-Tec...lol)
He was also the head guy at Grendel...(again, hence the name GRENdel...)

Grendel made one of the most successful semi-auto .22WMR's...so good the FBI even looked it over as a potential issue-backup.
This was the P-30 pistol...
There were 3 styles...the P-30 short pistol, the P-31 Oversized pistol...and the R-31 carbine.


Fun stuff Note the similarity to the R-31...

Ok, Then Bill Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 KILLED every high-cap mag (15+rounds)...until it sunsetted in 2004...
and pretty much KILLED every company that specialized in weapons that had 16 rounds or more capacity...hence the expiration of Grendel.

In 1995...George created Kel-Tec...and made the Basic Pistols that he was making before the ban, that made bookoo $$$ like the P-11 & P3...
and has since created some really successful weapons since, and he's lived happily ever after...history lesson over.



Now, what you REALLY need to know about .22WMR Semi-auto weapons...
I don't care WHO makes 'em...the main issue with 'em is the round itself...it simply ain't made for semi-auto use.
The fact that George figured out a way to make it work MOST OF THE TIME, in TWO separate styles of receiver, is nothing short of amazing.
I own a P-30 & an R-31...BOTH had to have some/most of the Goldenloki Tweaks before being Reliable...
http://www.goldenloki.com/gunsmith/keltec/fullrp.htm
and they have to be cleaned like AR-15's...meaning, after EVERY time you fire it, you clean it at the end of the day. No Exceptions. Ever.
If you go to the range...clean it after...if you go hunting and only fire ONE shot, clean it after...it'll save you a TON of grief.
Only Use Appropriate Gun Cleaners...as in the Old Fashioned styles...like Hoppe's & Outer's...plastic Melts when you use Brake Cleaner, DUH.
Let my experiences give you relief

Do those things, and they're perfectly reliable....Don't, and they act like Jam-O-Matics. Its that simple.

From what I gather, the other options in this category also suffer from the same headaches...
The AMT Automag II, when it first came out, I thought COOL and bought one...shortly thereafter, I wished I hadn't.
Reportedly, they also benefit from the Goldenloki tips...but as they're only 10-rds per mag...kind of a waste.
Same for the Excel Accelerator...only a 10-rd mag...and clunky as heck.
The Ruger 1022M is now DEAD...but lives on under the Magnum Research & Volquartsen banners. Ruger sold them the rights.
Ruger stopped & started production on the 1022M FIVE separate times before giving up...they just couldn't do it right.
That's why the MR & VQ versions cost $800+...they did it right, but that version is Expensive to get right.

The big benefit of .22WMR is Hi-Capacity...to make a pistol that DOESN'T take advantage of the power & small size of the round, is simply stupid.
The Grendels shared mags...reportedly, so do the PMR & RMR's 30-rounders, Smart Move!!

They're not planning on making NY/NJ/Cali/Ill/HI versions, you don't like it, get rid of the Democrats & change the bad gun laws.
Better Yet, Tar & Feather all Democrats!!