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Old 04-01-2013, 12:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Suppose, (God forbid), you're confronted with an HD situation and respond with a 22lr. Perfect head shot placement notwithstanding, how would the authorities, (or the BG's attorney), react to Mr. Bad Guy ventilated with 12 or 15 22lr rounds? Just askin.
As i instructed new shooters in my classes when teaching basic firearms use, and asked similar questions, empty the gun, and when you appear in court state under oath " He came at me and i panic'ed"
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:53 PM   #22
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Just remember what uncle Joe Biden said...just fire a 12gauge double barrel outside....that way, you could be arrested, the bad guy can get away and you can explain it all to some liberal judge!

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Old 04-01-2013, 10:30 PM   #23
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Ruger is building their own BX hicap mags for the Ruger 10-22. They work great. Quality 22lr ammo is a lot more reliable than the cheap stuff. I cannot remember the last time I had a Mini Mag not go bang. Load only high quality ammo for SD/HD.

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Old 04-01-2013, 10:35 PM   #24
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There are a lot of gaps in the logic in the video. There is a lot of "I heard", "I read", "it's been said", and a lot of regurgitated myths in the video. I can't take it too seriously from the way it was presented.

Can a .22 be used effectively as a defensive tool? Yes.

Are semi-auto rimfires prone to some reliability issues that one should consider before betting their life on one? Yes.

Can a .22 LR kill a person? Yes.

Is it better than a pointy stick? Depends on how much training you've had with a pointy stick I suppose.

Does the .22 LR have reliable repeatable results that you could bet your life on in the worst case scenario? Hmmmmmmm.

Why do SWAT team memebrs, entry teams, and military breeching teams not get disoriented and shut down by muzzle flash and blast if this is a universal problem?

Does the producer of the video have any experience with agressive person's being shot and stopped by a .22 LR? How many?

Does he understand that predictable results and performance on tissue, and clothing, bone, etc. is not exactly a well established trait of the .22 LR? No.

Does he acknowlege that feeding issues can be a problem with any rimmed cartidge and that reliability cannot be discounted in a definsive firearm? No.

As someone else pointed out, he also fails to address perfromance of the round from handguns versus rifles, and that hyper-velocity ammo from a .22 handgun can still have significant flash and report.

Seems like his universe of experience is a bit small.

There are some good features of the .22 LR that make it a tool to be considered for the role of self defense, but I would say that there is a lot more to consider than what he put forth in the video.

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Old 04-01-2013, 10:45 PM   #25
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I have heard another rumor from police officers. if you shoot someone more three times unless there are unusual circumstances you will be charged and tried for whatever the DA sees fit. They feel that if you shoot someone more than three times it's excessive force. Now a using a 22 might be one of those unusual circumstances. I would rather have something that if the attacker doesn't drop with the first shot I stop for second to look at my gun to see if it's not broken.

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Old 04-01-2013, 11:22 PM   #26
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I have to respect the young man in the Video. And no doubt a 22 LR/22 will kill you with the right placement and the right number of rounds! That being until the threat and aggression stops! And maybe a couple of extras for the road! He is fairly knowledgeable and I do give him credit for some of the presentation. I do not buy his theory of power and ballistics of the cartridge is not essential or necessary when it comes to protection weapons.
But his perception of what goes on in a life or death situation must have came form Guns and BS Magazine. First of all fine motor skills go away. Next the mind usually slows things to a crawl when they are actually happening at normal if not faster speed. Then audio inclusion sets in when the weapon is fired. The report of the weapon is muffled if even heard and recoil is minimal if even detected or felt. He stated he had seen several people shot with 22 cal ammunition? Really? But some of his points were in the park. But after being aware of a bank robber which a 9 mm ricocheted off his head from an HK MP-5 SD and he was hit 4 additional times in the body and still is alive today. A 22 is not my choice at all! Of course he is a ward of the State today and for several years to come. With that said, I do certainly prefer something much larger than a 22 LR. However they can be lethal and certainly are much better than not having the ability to protect ones self. Had a trooper friend killed with a single shot out of a 380 pistol but that is not the norm either! So there is no doubt smaller calibers including the 22 LR or Standard 22 can be deadly!!!! I hope no one ever ends up in a situation but they need to mentally and physically train themselves should it ever happen. That is not the time to think "What" am I going to do? And "How" am I going to do it! Too Late normally unless you get lucky!

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Old 04-04-2013, 10:59 AM   #27
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You use the weapon and caliber that best works for you in an emergency. My FIL is almost 80 and a 22 lr is about all he can handle. My wife cannot rack the slide on my 45 and cannot handle the kick of a shotgun. Her Browning 1911 22lr is easy to hold, operate and doesn't misfire. A stick can be a pretty dangerous thing if you really know how to use one.

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Old 04-06-2013, 12:35 AM   #28
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I grew up on a cattle ranch. Once a year we would slaughter our own beef for consumption. Most of the times it was multiple beef, as other family and friends had grown cattle for themselves. We always used a .22lr rifle to kill the steers. One shot to the head, and they were gone.

The .22lr will kill effectivly, as long as you are good with shot placement.

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Old 04-06-2013, 12:51 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruger52 View Post

The .22lr will kill effectivly, as long as you are good with shot placement.
They say that killing and stopping are two different things . A Pentagon Police officer was shot in the leg with a 9mm and suffered a broken bone . I doubt that a .22 LR often breaks bones .

A Holocaust Museum Special Police Officer was shot once at point blank range in the chest with a .22 rifle and dropped instantly / was killed .

Stopping power is iffy . A .22 fired from a rifle has the potential to carve a long wound channel , which should cause a good bit of tissue damage and bleeding ---and enable it to reach the vitals .
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:42 AM   #30
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This is a lot of theory and opinion. In cases like this, only the facts matter.

First off, this link is an article containing the ballistic facts of 10-years of actual shootings. If you can't handle your preconceived ideas being destroyed by facts, DO NOT read it. Those of you wanting real-life shooting facts to use to determine the efficacy of different calibers will be happily surprised and entertained.

As far as the "unreliable" .22 LR, ANY pistol or rifle has a certain type or brand that it always shoots better. There are premium .22 rounds that are more expensive, more accurate and more reliable than the "junk" ammo we all plink with. Also, all magazines should be battle-tested before being used for self-defense. No gun, not even your Glock, is going to be 100% reliable with junk ammo in untested magazines. And you have absolutely no excuse for not trying 10-15 different brands of ammo in your .22 LR at their relatively low price point compared to centerfire ammo. My .22 has tested magazines holding a brand of ammo that is 100% reliable and deadly accurate.

Finally, if your .22 LR is going to be a defense gun, there is no law saying a gunsmith cannot polish, port and accurize it just like any other weapon. Any weapon becomes better with professional improvements. These guns are treated as "beater" weapons and then knocked when they don't come off the shelf with stunning reliability and accuracy. Treat your .22 the same as your other self-defense guns and then you won't be comparing apples and oranges.

Oh, and I also CLEAN my .22.

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