You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - > Long Guns > .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion >

Scope or no scope to teach marksmanship?

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2014, 09:48 PM   #21
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Overkill0084's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Weber County, Utah
Posts: 4,905
Liked 3454 Times on 1741 Posts
Likes Given: 508


Originally Posted by Kdub View Post
I learned the same way. As an adult however, I have found it much easier and successful with kids to get them set up with an rds and work on basics such as stance, how they hold the gun, trigger pull, breathing. With an rds I think it greatly increases their hit ratio which creates excitement. As they get bigger and have a better understanding of guns then move to irons. It just makes sense to me to have them learn the easiest first and for me that is an RDS. Put dot on target, press trigger. I think most of the older guys who say, "I learned with iron sights and that's the way it should be done" is because back then optics were not as common or couldn't be afforded. They learned to shoot with irons because that was all there was.
Frankly, I think one should learn on iron sights first specifically because, yeah, it is significantly harder. Become proficient at doing something the hard way, then move on to the easier way. Like teaching math with a pencil & paper. Sure a calculator is easier, but you don't really learn jack about how to do long division.
If you learn something the hard way first, you will appreciate the easy way much more. It's human nature.
It's not because I'm a stubborn old curmudgeon stuck in the old ways just for the sake of being old timey. Certain sequences just work better in the long run. Teach with an optic first, then go to irons, I can just about guarantee you will hear whining like: "where's the one with the scope," "this sucks" ...
MSgt, USAF, Retired
NRA Life Member

The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see. - Ayn Rand
Overkill0084 is offline  
willshoum Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 10:03 PM   #22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 6,165
Liked 5017 Times on 2431 Posts
Likes Given: 1601


Originally Posted by Axxe55 View Post
open sights help a person learn the fundamentals of shooting. most all of my rifles are scoped, but i still have a few that aren't. i can still shoot open sights if i put my glasses on. i also hae a couple of rifles that scopes just wouldn't look right on them.

damn skippy on the manual transmission! when i learned to drive, we didn't even have a car with an automatic transmission.
Axxe... When you learned to drive, NO ONE had a car with an automatic transmission!
Tackleberry1 is offline  
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 10:50 PM   #23
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,474
Liked 651 Times on 427 Posts
Likes Given: 1313


Learning the fundamentals with rifle marksmanship begins with iron sights. I was taught and taught my children to shoot with the iron sights first,then graduated to the scope. JMO
MOshooter is offline  
willshoum Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 03:33 PM   #24
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
dteed4094's Avatar
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 799
Liked 62 Times on 48 Posts
Likes Given: 46


I was taught stance, breathing, trigger pull and safety before I even got ammo. I didn't even know scopes existed before I was proficient with Iron. I got my first scope 17 years after I was introduced to shooting. Now that my vision is compromised form age, most of my non surplus guns are scoped. Only owned standards til I was 50.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks nothing is worth war, is worse. A man who has nothing which he cares more about than his own personal safety is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless he is made free and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself" John Stuart Mill
A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of

Last edited by dteed4094; 04-12-2014 at 03:36 PM.
dteed4094 is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 04:32 PM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,007
Liked 358 Times on 263 Posts
Likes Given: 358


Originally Posted by maineshooter View Post
I just bought my son a new Marlin Model 60 and right out of the box in a standing unsupported position I could shoot a half inch group at 50 feet one hitting the bullseye square without any sight adjustments. Needless to say I am impressed already considering this is a pretty cheap plinker rifle. That being said, I ordered a small scope for this rifle because my son shot pretty good groups on my old JC Higgins .22 rifle with a scope. But knowing that real marksmanship is hitting targets with iron sights, I wonder if it actually hurts his shooting skill development by relying on a scope.

I guess I shot a combination of iron sights and scopes as a kid and qualified as Expert Marksman for M-16 qualification in Basic Training for the US Army. I think it was my experience with shooting with iron sights that helped that.

I don't know where this shooting hobby will take him, but I just wonder if we should work without the scope for a while and I wonder what others think or have experienced for themselves. Thanks.
I first learned to shoot a 22LR rifle with iron sights.

Then I graduated to a 7.62x51mm battle rifle with iron sights.

Then I graduated to a 5.56x45mm carbine with iron sights.

That was all long before my first scoped .308 bolt action rifle.

So I believe that iron sighted shooting should come first. Then the scope can be taught afterwards.
Shoobee is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 05:48 PM   #26
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
kfox75's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wrong side of the tracks, Erie PA,
Posts: 6,730
Liked 6043 Times on 3556 Posts
Likes Given: 30370


The choice is yours in the end, but if it were me I would run irons on your son's rifle. You have your old J.C. Higgins that is scoped, so if you want to work with him using a scope or irons, all you have to do is get out the other rifle.

Just my $0.02, YMMV.
Guns don't kill people. Blood loss and organ failure do.

I may live in the North, but I still uphold the Southern Values I was raised with.

lifetime member. NAHC, NRA, And SCOPE NY

If it's a nice enough day to wash the bike, it's d@mn well also a nice enough day to be riding it instead.
kfox75 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 01:03 PM   #27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,624
Liked 2229 Times on 1531 Posts
Likes Given: 820


I have found that once kids start shooting with a scope they will not use a rifle with iron sights. I would rather make the entire experience pain free for both of us, so I use iron sights first. It's not like I expect the kids to be able to shoot further than 10 yards the first couple days. Most kids that want to learn are shooting a empty shotgun hull on day one at 10 yards.

Last edited by John_Deer; 04-13-2014 at 01:05 PM.
John_Deer is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
scope for my AR hawkguy Optics & Mounts 20 12-21-2013 01:08 AM
Scope base, rings and scope wittmeba Optics & Mounts 27 11-25-2013 04:14 PM
Explain to me the use of a Red Dot scope or T-Dot scope. safedman General Rifle Discussion 7 10-16-2011 01:11 PM
NcSTAR Compact Rifle Scope - 6x32 Scope iskatel Optics & Mounts 18 05-08-2010 04:22 AM
eer scope for m38? keymastr5912 Curio & Relic Discussion 4 07-01-2009 04:32 AM