Looking for some advice on an entry level .22 - Page 4
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion > Looking for some advice on an entry level .22

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Old 09-04-2012, 07:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Jeff56

I didn't see the word "accurate" in there bro. Annie looked good with her lever for sure but then again she used shot shells so maybe she had an advantage, no? BTW I didn't say they "suck". I just said the other designs are better and they are. If you want fast you can get yourself a semi-auto that will shoot faster than any lever can possibly shoot even if you're one of those guys who practice day and night for years to get fast with a lever. And that semi-auto will be just as accurate as the lever.

Obviously the most significant piece of a gun that determines accuracy is the barrel so you can certainly get an accurate lever gun. But they have to have more wiggle room to function smoothly every time so that means less accuracy than a bolt gun. And a semi-auto will match a lever for accuracy and beat it on speed. It's a no brainer IMO.

I know people love their levers. But I'm sticking to my opinion. I just don't see a reason to work that lever myself when a semi-auto will shoot as well without the movement of the large muscles of the arm. And the SA will be faster. I just don't see where a lever has an advantage over either. Also when Annie was shooting the selections were a lot more limited. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut she would have been shooting a SA if she could have.
How many semi autos do you see in 45-70? Or 30-30, or .444 marlin, and the list goes on. Semi autos suck at handling rimmed rounds, and there again goes the quickness. As for accuracy, i don't think there is a huge disadvantage. The results are evident when shooting from a rest, but in an actual scenario such as hinting, how many times will you have a lead sled? I think for all practical purposes that a lever action can do a fine job at what it is designed for.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:31 PM   #32
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Those cartridges were designed differently. So what? How many 50 BMG lever guns do you see? That doesn't mean anything to me. I can certainly find bolt guns that equal or exceed the power of what a lever gun will do. Come on. You can do better than that. And I've never shot from a lead sled or any kind of a rest for that matter. I learned to shoot off hand and we scoffed at anyone who used any type of rest. That doesn't change the fact that a bolt action is inherently more accurate than a lever action Dale. You know that. You said so. Huge is in the eyes of the beholder. I'm not saying that a lever gun is useless but you're forgetting a few things here like the fact that most lever guns require blunt nose bullets so the primers don't get punched inside the tubes. Sure there are revolver type lever guns but not that many. You know and I know that the vast majority of modern bullets are designed for bolt action rifles with semi-auto next in line.

I really don't mind if you like lever guns Dale. People get so touchy about them when a few truths are pointed out. I've shot lots of lever guns. I don't think I've ever seen one that matches the accuracy of a good bolt gun. That isn't a big factor to some people. You can still hunt with them and plink with them and use them for SD. But they won't match up in target shooting as you well know.

This thread was all about an entry level .22. I will stick to my POV. A bolt action gun is better for that role. A semi-auto is a close second. I'd buy a pump before I bought a lever just to be honest. But you feel free to like what you want. I have my opinion and you won't change it. I've thought about this before. I'm not trying to put down your POV or you or step on any toes or start any flames. I just think bolt action rifles are a better choice for beginners. You get better accuracy and you can hold the rifle on target better while you're working the bolt over working a lever unless you have your lever gun working perfectly with all the parts oiled perfectly and smoothed down to eliminate drag etc.. Yes the difference may not be that great in your opinion but it is there. I just think a new shooter should know when they miss that the reason is that they aimed wrong, not that the bullets don't fly as straight because the chamber is more loose. Repeating what was done before is key to learning to shoot. If the gun won't do that as well as possible then there will always be that question in that new shooters mind - did I do that or did the gun do that?

I've shot lots of lever guns. I know they aren't terrible or anything. I said that from the start. I also know that bolt action guns are more accurate and that's important to a new shooter IMO. Being confident that the gun is doing as well as possible is important. I'll take that over nostalgia every time and IMO most lever gun lovers are nostalgia lovers. That's just my opinion but I've seen things that made me think that.

You know I haven't played my hole card yet. Here goes. When was the last time a lever gun won a major competition open to all types of rifles? That's proof that lever guns aren't what they used to be. It's proof they aren't as accurate too. And IMO it's proof a new shooter is better off with a different style of gun. You might be president of the gun club but I think I have you on this point.

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Old 09-04-2012, 10:20 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff56
Those cartridges were designed differently. So what? How many 50 BMG lever guns do you see? That doesn't mean anything to me. I can certainly find bolt guns that equal or exceed the power of what a lever gun will do. Come on. You can do better than that. And I've never shot from a lead sled or any kind of a rest for that matter. I learned to shoot off hand and we scoffed at anyone who used any type of rest. That doesn't change the fact that a bolt action is inherently more accurate than a lever action Dale. You know that. You said so. Huge is in the eyes of the beholder. I'm not saying that a lever gun is useless but you're forgetting a few things here like the fact that most lever guns require blunt nose bullets so the primers don't get punched inside the tubes. Sure there are revolver type lever guns but not that many. You know and I know that the vast majority of modern bullets are designed for bolt action rifles with semi-auto next in line.

I really don't mind if you like lever guns Dale. People get so touchy about them when a few truths are pointed out. I've shot lots of lever guns. I don't think I've ever seen one that matches the accuracy of a good bolt gun. That isn't a big factor to some people. You can still hunt with them and plink with them and use them for SD. But they won't match up in target shooting as you well know.

This thread was all about an entry level .22. I will stick to my POV. A bolt action gun is better for that role. A semi-auto is a close second. I'd buy a pump before I bought a lever just to be honest. But you feel free to like what you want. I have my opinion and you won't change it. I've thought about this before. I'm not trying to put down your POV or you or step on any toes or start any flames. I just think bolt action rifles are a better choice for beginners. You get better accuracy and you can hold the rifle on target better while you're working the bolt over working a lever unless you have your lever gun working perfectly with all the parts oiled perfectly and smoothed down to eliminate drag etc.. Yes the difference may not be that great in your opinion but it is there. I just think a new shooter should know when they miss that the reason is that they aimed wrong, not that the bullets don't fly as straight because the chamber is more loose. Repeating what was done before is key to learning to shoot. If the gun won't do that as well as possible then there will always be that question in that new shooters mind - did I do that or did the gun do that?

I've shot lots of lever guns. I know they aren't terrible or anything. I said that from the start. I also know that bolt action guns are more accurate and that's important to a new shooter IMO. Being confident that the gun is doing as well as possible is important. I'll take that over nostalgia every time and IMO most lever gun lovers are nostalgia lovers. That's just my opinion but I've seen things that made me think that.

You know I haven't played my hole card yet. Here goes. When was the last time a lever gun won a major competition open to all types of rifles? That's proof that lever guns aren't what they used to be. It's proof they aren't as accurate too. And IMO it's proof a new shooter is better off with a different style of gun. You might be president of the gun club but I think I have you on this point.
Okay, I'm sorry for being cliché and quoting anchorman but "this escalated quickly" . I totally agree with you on how bolt guns are probably a better choice for most uses. On the other hand not all bolt actions are created equal. Some are better than others. I would just like to say, well played. But the only thing that still nags me is the phrase that they "came and went". I still think there are many practical purposes for lever guns and they should still be taken seriously. ( oh and by the way I'm only 28 so I'm not a very nostalgic person). Sure you don't see people fighting wars with Winchester 94s but they aren't obsolete. I just would like to say again, you pose a very good argument. Have nice day!
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #34
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Soooo....whos cleanin all this piss up ?

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Old 09-05-2012, 10:16 AM   #35
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Soooo....whos cleanin all this piss up ?
Do I have to? I did last time?
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:08 AM   #36
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I started out with my Little Ithaca M72 .22 saddle gun. Its a solid little piper sized nicely for a youngster and its a single shot so they learn some real lessons in safety and ammo conservation at the same time. No its not the most accurate piece, its not really flashy and doesn't look like a military piece (at least from this century) but it is a classy little lever action. 40+ years after I got it as a gift (used), its still the one out of many that gets use almost weekly varmint whacking. Its also one of the pieces that has gained the most value with the least investment , they aren't cheap if you can find one, when they were made, they were not much more than a Daisy, (i think they were $12 in 1960)!

It may not be a bad idea to think about your kids age difference as a chance to buy 2 different pieces, one repeater, one single shot and that way they have some steps to climb and variety instead of matching them.

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Old 09-05-2012, 07:35 PM   #37
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They certainly aren't gone yet Dale. But they are dropping off the map slowly IMO. There are lots of people that love them. BTW I don't know anyone who's old enough to remember the big era of the lever gun which would have been the 19th century. Sure they've been around for a long time after that but back then they were the be all and end all of rifles. I know there were other designs back then but the average Joe liked having a rifle that could be fired repeatedly in a hurry. It wasn't until after WWI that the bolt action Springfields started displacing the lever guns as the most popular choice for hunting and that was only because of the huge number of surplus war rifles around. They sold cheap and the ammo did too so people began switching to the 30.06 bolt action for hunting and the rest is history.

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Old 09-06-2012, 11:56 AM   #38
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I love Bolts,
I love Levers,
I love Semi-auto,
I love Pump-action rifles (which are faster then levers) yet for some odd reason hardly ever made....
I loved Full-auto in the Army...
and I love Revolvers...

For Kids, semi auto is a bad idea...mostly because the little BLEEPS need to learn some Bleeping Patience
You take a kid who has learned to make each shot count for a couple years, THEN give 'em a semi-auto,
and they'll shoot that semi-auto the way they should, where each shot counts...
give a kid a semi-auto straight off, and it doesn't take long before they're Praying & Spraying...

Trying to get the Pray & Spray teenagers to UNLEARN the bad habits in Boot Camp??
Dang Near Impossible...mostly because the DI's can't beat it into 'em anymore...

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Old 09-06-2012, 03:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
Either a Henry lever or a Marlin 60...
Adjustments can be made for youth, many "grow into"

these miniscule LOPs very quickly.

If you really find it necessary, order replacement stocks from

Henry or Marlin, and cut them to the proper LOP for your

sprout...
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:58 PM   #40
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Thanks for the input. Gives me some ideas to start with. As in all firearms it's up to the shooter as what they like but for me it seems to really help a lot when you can get some other ideas to look at as well.

I know as with everything else with these two boys we will end up buying a second one so they will each have their own.

I always start to ask myself why can't they share but then memory kicks in and being the youngest growing up with 2 older brothers I know it's impossible to share.
Check out the Savage Razor with a peep site. Nice looking entry level gun.
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