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Old 06-12-2014, 01:07 AM   #1
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Default .22lr precision shooting...questions

I've been in the AR world for a while, skeet shooting occasionally, handgun self defense shooting for practice pretty frequently and recently getting into precision shooting…

but what I've never been exposed to is the world of .22lr…

I'm looking for a .22lr so i can spend the whole day at the range without spending my whole paycheck at the range…

so i'll tell you what i'm looking for and post some questions so you can answer accordingly…

…I APPRECIATE ANY AND ALL HELP FROM YOU GUYS HERE AND PLEASE EXCUSE MY UNWILLINGNESS TO DO RESEARCH TO FIND THESE ANSWERS...


I am looking for a HIGH END .22lr…not something cheap or even average. i like to buy very high quality parts/firearms because i plan on owning these things for life and passing them down to children/grand children, etc.

I'm willing to spend around $1,000…this may seem like a lot, but today i was at my LGS and saw some for over $800 (and that was without optics!)

I want something NOT for plinking, but rather something for precision shooting…So i'll want it drilled and tapped for a scope or have a picatinny rail on it. You may find it odd, a .22lr for precision, but its something i enjoy...(and precision shooting with my big boy bolt actions is just getting too expensive)

I'd prefer a bolt action .22lr, but i'd settle for a semi auto if its proven to be just as accurate and reliable...

let the questions begin…

1. what is an acceptable range for a .22lr to be accurate out to? 200 yards? 300? 500?!

2. what sort of groupings can be expected of an accurate .22lr? is sub MOA reasonable to expect out of a higher end .22lr?

3. what are the names of some manufacturers that make higher end .22lr rifles? and can you possibly name some specific models that might fit my needs?

4. I've only ever shot bulk .22lr ammo. is there such thing as match grade .22lr ammunition? and what is the average price of a 100 round box for this match grade ammo?

5. what features/benefits do you get from paying for a high end .22lr rifle compared to the extremely popular Ruger 10/22?


…I'll post more questions later. thanks!

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Old 06-12-2014, 01:34 AM   #2
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Anschutz rifle eley ammo is what most pros use kimber makes a good 22 and cz is also another one.

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Old 06-12-2014, 04:37 AM   #3
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let the questions begin…

1. What is an acceptable range for a .22lr to be accurate out to? 200 yards? 300? 500?!
Acceptable range to do what exactly? 22lr has a severe drop. High end rifles shooting top of the line ammo at 50y will get you dime sized groups. Much over 100y you're really lobbing a bullet to the target like a mortar shell. You would need MOA rings because your scope won't have enough elevation by itself.

2. what sort of groupings can be expected of an accurate .22lr? is sub MOA reasonable to expect out of a higher end .22lr?
Under 50 yards, competition groups are measured with a micrometer because a 1 mph cross wind will push a match bullet from the point of aim a whole tenth of an inch. Top end competition rifles with match quality ammunition group about 3/8 of an inch at 50y. Match ammo is subsonic, slow, and accurate, but it drops like a stone. High & Hyper speed ammo lose stability at about 75 yards and will keyhole the target, if you even hit the target.

3. what are the names of some manufacturers that make higher end .22lr rifles? and can you possibly name some specific models that might fit my needs?
Anschutz (Annie) is highest end 22lr that's popular. I'm sure you can get a good used one for $1k. CZ is next for several hundred $ new. Savage MkIIs shoot as well as CZs but are bit crude in finish comparatively.

4. I've only ever shot bulk .22lr ammo, is there such thing as match grade .22lr ammunition? and what is the average price of a 100 round box for this match grade ammo?
Not only is there match grade 22lr ammo, Eley makes lots of different levels of 'quality'. You can expect to pay as much for competition grade ammo as you do for everyday center fire ammo.

5. what features/benefits do you get from paying for a high end .22lr rifle compared to the extremely popular Ruger 10/22?
A high end rifle will give you sub 1" Groups at 100y right out of the box, with the right ammo, and without wind. A 10/22 will get you the same thing AFTER you've spent a small fortune on it.

I don't think I've ever seen a semi auto small bore target rifle. As far as I know they're all bolt actions.

22lr accuracy is mostly about the ammo. The cheap stuff is run off the production line going full bore and QC checks are minimal. As you go up in cost the machinery is slowed down permitting tighter tolerances and QC checks are done more frequently. Top shots even go as fare as weighing each individual round to insure consistency, and when a lot that shoots well in their firearm is discovered, they will buy A LOT of the lot number.

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Last edited by Vincine; 06-12-2014 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 06-12-2014, 05:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
let the questions begin…

1. What is an acceptable range for a .22lr to be accurate out to? 200 yards? 300? 500?!
Acceptable range to do what exactly? 22lr has a severe drop. High end rifles shooting top of the line ammo at 50y will get you dime sized groups. Much over 100y you're really lobbing a bullet to the target like a mortar shell. You would need MOA rings because your scope won't have enough elevation by itself.

2. what sort of groupings can be expected of an accurate .22lr? is sub MOA reasonable to expect out of a higher end .22lr?
Under 50 yards, competition groups are measured with a micrometer because a 1 mph cross wind will push a match bullet from the point of aim a whole tenth of an inch. Top end competition rifles with match quality ammunition group about 3/8 of an inch at 50y. Match ammo is subsonic, slow, and accurate, but it drops like a stone. High & Hyper speed ammo lose stability at about 75 yards and will keyhole the target, if you even hit the target.

3. what are the names of some manufacturers that make higher end .22lr rifles? and can you possibly name some specific models that might fit my needs?
Anschutz (Annie) is highest end 22lr that's popular. I'm sure you can get a good used one for $1k. CZ is next for several hundred $ new. Savage MkIIs shoot as well as CZs but are bit crude in finish comparatively.


4. I've only ever shot bulk .22lr ammo, is there such thing as match grade .22lr ammunition? and what is the average price of a 100 round box for this match grade ammo?
Not only is there match grade 22lr ammo, Eley makes lots of different levels of 'quality'. You can expect to pay as much for competition grade ammo as you do for everyday center fire ammo.

5. what features/benefits do you get from paying for a high end .22lr rifle compared to the extremely popular Ruger 10/22?
A high end rifle will give you sub 1" Groups at 100y right out of the box, with the right ammo, and without wind. A 10/22 will get you the same thing AFTER you've spent a small fortune on it.

I don't think I've ever seen a semi auto small bore target rifle. As far as I know they're abll bolt actions.

22lr accuracy is mostly about the ammo. The cheap stuff is run off the production line going full bore and QC checks are minimal. As you go up in cost the machinery is slowed down permitting tighter tolerances and QC checks are done more frequently. Top shots even go as fare as weighing each individual round to insure consistency, and when a lot that shoots well in their firearm is discovered, they will buy A LOT of the lot number.
thank you, sir.

i guess my next questions would be…

1. if a top quality .22lr bolt action can give you 1" groups at 100 yards out of the box (with the right ammo and no wind)
….then what sort of groupings could you expect from a 10/22 out of the box with quality ammo and no wind?

2. you talked about spending "a small fortune" on a 10/22…exactly what upgrades are people doing to these to make them more accurate?
(I'm asking because i love tinkering…)

thank you
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmh View Post
Anschutz rifle eley ammo is what most pros use kimber makes a good 22 and cz is also another one.
A well used Anschutz could possibly fit into his budget, but not a new one. You are looking at $3000 to $4000 for a brand new Anschutz 54 benchrest rifle in an aluminum stock without the scope. Even an Anschutz 54 sporter is around $1500.

A used Kimber 82 G can be had for less than $1000.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icallshotgun88 View Post
thank you, sir.

i guess my next questions would be…

1. if a top quality .22lr bolt action can give you 1" groups at 100 yards out of the box (with the right ammo and no wind)
….then what sort of groupings could you expect from a 10/22 out of the box with quality ammo and no wind?

2. you talked about spending "a small fortune" on a 10/22…exactly what upgrades are people doing to these to make them more accurate?
(I'm asking because i love tinkering…)

thank you
You will not build a 10/22 as accurate as an equal quality single shot bolt action no matter how much you spend on it. There is always some slight bullet deformation in the feeding process.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:10 AM   #7
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I use my BRNO CZ .22 both for hunting and a little bit of paper punching. I've had this gun for roughly 30 years and it's accounted for rabbits,foxes a couple of small pigs, some feral cats, a few crows and I've also shot groups around 3/4" all using HV ammo.
I had this rifle bedded and floated which helped it a bit but even out of the box it shot very well. You can get after market triggers for the BRNO and it'll probably out live you.

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Old 06-12-2014, 09:10 AM   #8
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The CZ Semi is about as good as your going to get in a 22 Semi-Auto, except for maybe the Browning Buckmark Rifle with a bull Barrel. You CAN make a 10/22 VERY accurate, but your talking everything re-worked except for the Action itself, new barrel, new trigger. A Rimfire BDC optic( 150yds. on the paper,) there is a scope called the HAWK, which does 22BDC out to 200 yds. I have been " Tacticool- Ing my Mossberg 702, but it's just not as accurate as my 10/22 with JARD barrel and Tapco Stock...


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Old 06-12-2014, 09:32 AM   #9
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Besides Annies and CZ's, there were also Remington 40X and Winchester 52 rifles. I think the 40X may still be made in the custom shop, the Win 52 went out of production in 1989. Price? Jesus wept.

Standard range for .22 LR is 50 yards. With a GOOD target rifle and match ammo, it is possible to put 5 rds in a single ragged hole.

You will also find surprisingly accurate Savage riles, and several of the Mossberg rifles from the 1940s and 50s will give a very high $$$ target rifle a run for the money.

Match ammo? Lot of makers- very pricy- but Federal Champion Target Standard Velocity (if you can find it) comes close at normal prices.

Scope? Ah, yes- although there are shooters that use only peeps or diopters. Expect to spend 50% of the cost of a rifle for a GOOD scope and mounts.

rifles-018.jpg

Lower end- a Mossberg 44 US, made in 1943, that will make those one-ragged-hole- groups I mentioned. If I feed it Lapua Master ammo.

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Old 06-12-2014, 10:18 AM   #10
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OP, I'd say definitely don't overlook CZ or Savage. While they are about 1/2 your budget, you could use the rest for a scope. Check out the CZ 453. That trigger is all kinds of adjustable. Maybe check out the ammo situation 1st. I wouldn't even know where to find the stuff mentioned here in my neck of the woods. It wasn't even popular before the ammo shortage. YMMV.

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