[Jeff56]

The 795 is a semi-auto that uses box mags. It is very similar to the Marlin 60 except for the mags. It is also a very inexpensive rifle selling for far less than the Model 60. It's got a synthetic stock which is actually a very good stock. It's a very accurate rifle especially for the price it brings. You can find them for $125 many places and Marlin has had a $25 rebate on them for 2 years now. They are well worth $100. Mine has some problems with the LSHO feature but for the price I am not going to complain. It also has a trigger guard that isn't as strong as it should be but only around the mag well. The big problem I've had with Marlin is customer service to be honest. They are going through a period of transition because of being bought out by the same people that own Remington and also they have moved their factory and hired an all new labor force. I love my 795 though. It's so light it feels like a BB gun but it certainly shoots very accurate.

The Savage MkII g (not the MkI which is just the wrong name for their rifle - there is no MkI that I know of) is a bolt action rifle also with a box mag. The g determines what type of stock it has. The G stock is a wood stock made out of birch I believe. At any rate it's a good stock and far better than their plastic stocks (and I do mean plastic) which are F models. The rimfires Savage makes are extremely accurate and the MkII G is no exception. They also make the same rifle with a varmint barrel which is what I have. The main difference would be the way the heavier varmint barrel handles heat better. For hunting there is not really any reason to get the varmint barrel although they may shoot a little better even without heat being a factor. I haven't compared them side by side but many people say the sporter barreled models are just as accurate.

I've shot groups that were just great with my Savage. It is the best shooting rimfire I've got and it is capable of shooting with the very best rifles made but it's not as consistent a the really great rifles. For example I shot a group of 5 shots at 50 yards where 4 out of the 5 shots went through a hole that was barely bigger than a .22 bullet. That part of the group measured a ridiculously small .01". The 5th shot was a "flyer" (if you can call it that) that spread the whole group out to a .3" overall. But I've shot groups of .111" for 5 shots and I've shot other groups like the first one where one shot kept me from being under .1". Any .22 that can ever shoot that well is a very accurate gun. Keep in mind that I've shot a whole bunch of groups to get those very small groups I mentioned. The average group is probably just over .25" and groups of .5" are common. Still those are good numbers for a rifle in it's price range. I do have to say the rifle is very picky about ammo. It pretty much shoots it's best with Wolf ammo and that's it. It also does well with CCI SV ammo but not nearly as well as with the Wolf. And Wolf ammo is not exactly cheap. But I've heard others say their Savages shot well with other ammo. Every individual rifle is different of course.

Both of those rifles should be excellent choices. It just depends on what you want from your rifle. If you're strictly hunting I'd say get the Marlin. It you plan on shooting any targets at all I'd get the Savage.

[Mosin]

Out of boredom, I dug my old Remington 597 out of the dust bin (my first rifle, purchased on my 18th birthday). I cleaned the hell out of the barrel, polished the muzzle, free floated the barrel, gave it a fresh camo paint job. Then I opened her up and polished the hell out of the internals, slapped a rail on her and put a scope on.

I bought 5 different types of ammo and shot them all for comparison. I've found that the higher the velocity, the more the accuracy varies. Remington subsonic rounds, I can consistently hit the Bear on a tin of mint grizzly at 50 yards... Yet somehow can't hit ONE damn crow I shoot at

[Jeff56]

Those crows are tough. You may be hitting them and they just don't have enough sense to fall over. Seriously it takes a really solid hit to bring down a crow. When we were kids killing a crow was considered a mark of a really good hunter. Having a crow's foot was also considered a good luck charm because it took luck to get one. What can I say, we were hillbillies. But we knew about how hard it is to kill crows.

Actually shotguns are the favored method of shooting crows if you want to really be successful at it. We used .22's because we wanted to good at hunting. We used blinds and got up early in the morning (before daylight) to catch crows coming out of their roosts. I only saw one crow ever killed with a .22 in fact. It's not as easy as it looks unless you use a more persuasive gun.

[tCan]

Originally Posted by Jeff56

Those crows are tough. You may be hitting them and they just don't have enough sense to fall over. Seriously it takes a really solid hit to bring down a crow. When we were kids killing a crow was considered a mark of a really good hunter. Having a crow's foot was also considered a good luck charm because it took luck to get one. What can I say, we were hillbillies. But we knew about how hard it is to kill crows.

Actually shotguns are the favored method of shooting crows if you want to really be successful at it. We used .22's because we wanted to good at hunting. We used blinds and got up early in the morning (before daylight) to catch crows coming out of their roosts. I only saw one crow ever killed with a .22 in fact. It's not as easy as it looks unless you use a more persuasive gun.

I've not shot crow before, but this one's got me scratching my head. What makes the crow different from any other bird?

Crow Hunting - Ricochet Investigation - YouTube

Crow Hunting - Ricochet Investigation - YouTube

[boatman]

Originally Posted by Jeff56

I've shot groups that were just great with my Savage. It is the best shooting rimfire I've got and it is capable of shooting with the very best rifles made but it's not as consistent a the really great rifles. For example I shot a group of 5 shots at 50 yards where 4 out of the 5 shots went through a hole that was barely bigger than a .22 bullet. That part of the group measured a ridiculously small .01". The 5th shot was a "flyer" (if you can call it that) that spread the whole group out to a .3" overall. But I've shot groups of .111" for 5 shots and I've shot other groups like the first one where one shot kept me from being under .1".
Both of those rifles should be excellent choices. It just depends on what you want from your rifle. If you're strictly hunting I'd say get the Marlin. It you plan on shooting any targets at all I'd get the Savage.

Jeff, thanks for the great info. BTW, what were you using for sights. If a Marlin is $100, I can't see putting a $300 scope on this. To get the accuracy of .1", was this just with iron sights?

[Jeff56]

Those groups were with my Savage boatman. I have a Weaver T36 for target shooting. I had it on my Savage for a long time but now it's on my CZ 453.

Crows are just tough as heck tCan. Plus they're smart too. It's hard to get a good shot at one because they post sentry's around where they roost. If the sentry lets a predator get past they are chased out of the murder (which is what a group of crows is called). The video shows what must have been the luckiest shot in history. Hitting something vital on a crow is no easy job even if you have a clear shot. But the fact the bird had enough sense to hide behind limbs shows how smart they are.

My guess is that crows in a lot of places have lost their fear of humans like other animals have (think squirrels in a city park). Where we lived crows knew if they got close to a garden they were going to be shot at. I'm just guessing here obviously. But I do know that killing crows is not nearly as easy as the guy in the video lets on. To kill one with a ricochet shot with a pellet is just crazy IMO. I looked around and found some suggested equipment for crow hunting on this page and this page. Both pages suggest using a shotgun with one saying a centerfire .22 is a good choice. Neither suggests an air rifle you can be sure. Obviously a good shot will bring down a crow with a .22 and so will a lucky shot. But keep in mind that this guy killed "one" crow and he did it from a blind because the crow had already learned that he was shooting at it. Crows learn very quickly. Hiding behind a tree limb is more evidence of their intelligence.

I knew a family that actually had a pet crow once. The thing got hurt when it was young and they fed it and nursed it back to health. Once healthy it just decided to stay I guess. That crow learned to talk very well if that tells you anything. It was illegal to keep a crow as a pet but they couldn't run the thing off. It liked free food I guess. Whatever the case it died there of old age. They know which side their bread is buttered on I guess. Crows are smart, tough animals and I'm really impressed that someone managed to kill one with a lucky shot from a pellet gun. Trust me they don't all fall that easy.

To be honest I think he might have actually shot a raven. It looks pretty small to be a crow. An American crow is 16" to 20" tall. That bird in the video doesn't look that big and ravens look almost identical to crows. Look at the 2:47 point in the video. That bird just doesn't look big enough to be a crow. Also a raven's bill is larger in proportion to it's body. A crow has a substantially smaller bill proportionally. I'm convinced the video is a killed raven to be honest. Their behavior is very similar to the crow but their size isn't and neither are their beaks. Here is what a crow looks like. The photo is from Wikipedia. Notice the smaller looking beak. Also notice the feathers appear much smoother on a crow.