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Old 09-29-2013, 06:11 AM   #31
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Tell ya what man. Go to your LGS and take a list of the shortcuts WW makes. Bring me back a list of LEGITIMATE complaints, and I'll never question you on AR's again.
No, instead why not look at the specs of a quality AR and then try to dig up complete specs for the lesser rifles. As you might suspect details are sketchy if the manufacturer has something to hide.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:15 AM   #32
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http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtLE6920Series.aspx


http://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/NewTechSeets/MPC%2012-17-12%20MSRP.pdf

Watch this video
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:25 AM   #33
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Things are not that black and white Q. Just because a rifle has a com tube it doesn't mean that corners were cut. I've built and bought guns with both tubes, there is no benefit to either.
Most people aren't gonna use them hard enough to tell the difference but I'm sure after a few buttstrokes ( ) you'd be able to tell the difference.

Nowadays, commercial and milspec are about the same price ($20 difference or so) so why not get the better one? Here's why a true milspec is better:

True Milspec is forged.
True Milspec is 7075.
True Milspec has roll formed threads.
True Milspec is smaller in diameter, making it a bit stronger, this is marginal tho.
True Milspec is blind hole machined out of a solid block.

Commercial tubes are larger in diameter.
Commercial tubes are almost always 6061.
Commercial tubes are extruded.
Commercial tubes are usually welded in the back.

If you think commercial and true milspec are practically the same just different dimensions, you are wrong. If you think for your own practical usage, they are the both about the same then you are right.



Watch out tho: Don't fooled into believing all milspec sized tubes are true milspec. There's a reason why some are priced the same as commercial tubes, they are made with 6061. They can be extruded. They can be welded closed. But exterior dimensions may be milspec. So watch out.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentTikki

Most people aren't gonna use them hard enough to tell the difference but I'm sure after a few buttstrokes ( ) you'd be able to tell the difference.

Nowadays, commercial and milspec are about the same price ($20 difference or so) so why not get the better one? Here's why a true milspec is better:

True Milspec is forged.
True Milspec is 7075.
True Milspec has roll formed threads.
True Milspec is smaller in diameter, making it a bit stronger, this is marginal tho.
True Milspec is blind hole machined out of a solid block.

Commercial tubes are larger in diameter.
Commercial tubes are 6061.
Commercial tubes are extruded.
Commercial tubes are welded in the back.

If you think commercial and milspec is the same, you are wrong. If you think for your own practical usage, they are the both about the same then you are right.

Watch out tho: Don't fooled into believing all milspec sized tubes are true milspec. There's a reason why some are priced the same as commercial tubes, they are made with 6061. They can be extruded. They can be welded closed. But exterior dimensions may be milspec. So watch out.
Ohh I know the spec differences. I just don't think there is any real benefit to a MilSpec tube. Both do the same job, and I have no preference between the two.

Maybe one will find the difference if they are gonna use their AR as a club.....
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:45 AM   #35
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I was thinking of specs more like the following. Try to get that kind of detail from WW. When I'm building or buying you'd better believe I'm looking at that kind of detail. Everyone else can make up their own mind but I do suggest doing a little more research than the average AR buyer.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Mid-16-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/142.htm
BCM® MID-16 Mod 2
The Mod 2 Carbine includes a drop in tactical handguard system and a folding battle sight. This model is ready to be accessorized with all your mission essential gear.
BCM® MID-16 Carbines will feature:

BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Mod 4 Charging Handle
Mid Length Gas System
M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension
M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver
T-Marked Upper Receivers
USGI 5.56mm NATO Chambers
Independently Certified Mil-Spec 11595E Barrel Steel
Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber
Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish on entire barrel
Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sights
Taper Pinned Front Sight Base
USGI Government Profile Barrels
HPT (High Pressure Test, per Milspec) Barrels
MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected, per Milspec) Barrels
Bolt machined from Mil-Spec Carpenter No. 158® steel
HPT Bolt (High Pressure Tested/ Proof)
MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected)
Shot Peened Bolt
Chrome Lined Carrier (AUTO)
Chrome Lined Gas Key
Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications
Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners Key
Staked Per Mil-Spec
Tool Steel Extractor
BCM® Extractor Spring
Black Extractor Insert
Receivers Machined from Aluminum Forgings 7075-T6
Receivers Hardcoat Anodize per MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2
BCM® Milspec 7075-T6 Receiver Extension
USGI Mold M4 Stock Staked M4 Lock Nut
USGI H Buffer (1 USGI Tungsten, 2 Steel)
Magpul MOE Enhanced Trigger Guard
Low Shelf for RDIAS installation
Low Shelf for Accuwedge use
Un-notched Hammer compatible with 9mm use
Fire Controls marked SAFE and SEMI


Complete BCM® Rifles and Carbines include: Rifle, 1 Magazine (where allowed), Cable Lock, USGI Manual, and F.E.T.

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Old 09-29-2013, 06:59 AM   #36
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Of course BCM guns are better!! They run $1400 not $800 like WW guns.

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Old 09-29-2013, 07:05 AM   #37
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Of course BCM guns are better!! They run $1400 not $800 like WW guns.
But you said WW doesn't cut corners!

And I brought my BCM in for about $1100. I also brought in a PSA for $700 that has better specs than WW.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:07 AM   #38
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But you said WW doesn't cut corners!
Not at the sub 1k price point.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:40 PM   #39
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Well we're not going to agree, K. I'll just close by saying anyone buying a new AR or selecting parts, remember quality varies within a price point. A lot of people will tell you all parts or all ARs are the same. They're not. If someone tries to sell you what they have in stock, remember they have their own agenda and it's probably not looking after you.

I've never said WW is junk but you can do much better at their price point. Most new people take the wrong advice and buy a 16" M4 profile barrel with carbine length gas, overgassed, and a too light standard buffer. With just a little research you would find other options that give you a better tuned AR. And coming full circle, odds are high that better AR won't have a commercial receiver extension.

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Old 09-29-2013, 03:44 PM   #40
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Cut corners, or make a perfectly acceptable and functioning firearm?

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