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Old 11-29-2012, 08:31 PM   #11
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One shot...One Kill...was always a nice mantra durring my term of Infantry Service...

Tack

I watched an interesting program on the military channel recently.

The program was about the U.S. Army sniper school. One of the lead instructors, a SFC, IIRC., stated that "one shot, one kill" was the motto, of course, but in the field, the actual kill usually came on the second, or often the third shot. Sometimes the fourth.

This trooper had several sniper deployments under his belt, as well as several years instructing at the sniper school.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:43 PM   #12
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I watched an interesting program on the military channel recently.

The program was about the U.S. Army sniper school. One of the lead instructors, a SFC, IIRC., stated that "one shot, one kill" was the motto, of course, but in the field, the actual kill usually came on the second, or often the third shot. Sometimes the fourth.

This trooper had several sniper deployments under his belt, as well as several years instructing at the sniper school.
I believe it was the late Col. Jeff Cooper who said..."Don't just shoot him until YOU think he's done...shoot him until HE thinks HE's done!"

...or something like that.

Tack
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:06 AM   #13
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Double tap hell, you put two in the chest and one in the head. That make sure they ain't playing possum.

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Old 11-30-2012, 02:17 AM   #14
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Why double tap? Cause if it was worth shooting it, it was worth shooting it twice.

Actually, MY motto is "Shoot until it catches fire or changes shape."

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Old 11-30-2012, 02:25 AM   #15
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Why double tap? Cause if it was worth shooting it, it was worth shooting it twice.

Actually, MY motto is "Shoot until it catches fire or changes shape."

The target, or your handguards?! :EEK:
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:37 PM   #16
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"Why double tap?"

Interesting read but the fact is, it doesn't say anything new. I have always been trained to 'eliminate/stop' all threats.

I remember being told by a range officer at the Patrol Academy some thing like this: Keep you revolver in the holster, don't go waving it around. Before you remove it from the holster, you must have legal grounds. If you have legal ground to pull the revolver, you have legal grounds to fire, if you have legal ground to fire, you have legal ground to empty the revolver. Fire only as a last resort but don't die debating it.
Revolvers are no longer the weapon of choice (finally) but the concept remains valid. Back when I was a range office, I promoted the view of shooting until the 'suspect' is no longer a threat. In the late 70's the 'sociologists' started coming threw the range and they wanted to cure the poor individual. My thoughts were, yea right, your ghost can reason with them after your dead.

I 'double tap' or more, just because of habit with any auto loader, pistol and rifle. 39 years of training is hard to put a side.

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Old 11-30-2012, 03:49 PM   #17
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"Why double tap?"

Interesting read but the fact is, it doesn't say anything new. I have always been trained to 'eliminate/stop' all threats.

I remember being told by a range officer at the Patrol Academy some thing like this: Keep you revolver in the holster, don't go waving it around. Before you remove it from the holster, you must have legal grounds. If you have legal ground to pull the revolver, you have legal grounds to fire, if you have legal ground to fire, you have legal ground to empty the revolver. Fire only as a last resort but don't die debating it.
Revolvers are no longer the weapon of choice (finally) but the concept remains valid. Back when I was a range office, I promoted the view of shooting until the 'suspect' is no longer a threat. In the late 70's the 'sociologists' started coming threw the range and they wanted to cure the poor individual. My thoughts were, yea right, your ghost can reason with them after your dead.

I 'double tap' or more, just because of habit with any auto loader, pistol and rifle. 39 years of training is hard to put a side.
Same thing basically that I was taught, and that i taiught others as an instructor.

If you do not have both legal and moral justification to kill, you don't have justification to shoot. If you do have justification, you continue shooting until the threat is neutralized.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpapps
"Why double tap?"

Interesting read but the fact is, it doesn't say anything new. I have always been trained to 'eliminate/stop' all threats.

I remember being told by a range officer at the Patrol Academy some thing like this: Keep you revolver in the holster, don't go waving it around. Before you remove it from the holster, you must have legal grounds. If you have legal ground to pull the revolver, you have legal grounds to fire, if you have legal ground to fire, you have legal ground to empty the revolver. Fire only as a last resort but don't die debating it.
Revolvers are no longer the weapon of choice (finally) but the concept remains valid. Back when I was a range office, I promoted the view of shooting until the 'suspect' is no longer a threat. In the late 70's the 'sociologists' started coming threw the range and they wanted to cure the poor individual. My thoughts were, yea right, your ghost can reason with them after your dead.

I 'double tap' or more, just because of habit with any auto loader, pistol and rifle. 39 years of training is hard to put a side.
I am responding to this with the experience of almost 30 years as a LEO in Cal. If you think you have the authority to shoot any time you have the legal grounds to pull the pistol, you are very wrong, and advise like this will get you sent to prison in Cal under many circumstances.

As an example, if you are confronted with a bad guy approaching with a knife extended, 40 feet away from, you may legally draw your weapon to defend yourself. If the suspect immediately lays on the ground crying, you ARE NOT justified in shooting that person. This of course is an extreme example, but the legal premise holds true. I legally pulled my weapon from it's holster hundreds of times when I was not justified, legally or morally, in shooting with the info I had at the time!

This training you allude to may have been the case at one time, but I started my PO training in 1978, and what I have expressed here has not changed significantly since then in Cal.

In addition, if you ever do shoot someone, which I hope you never have to do, you were shooting to stop the threat, NOT TO KILL! This is what you better say to the cops and the judge!
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:59 PM   #19
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I like the 9 tap from a shotgun at close range.

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Old 11-30-2012, 07:36 PM   #20
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2ndfan,

I'm not about to disagree. But the Missouri Laws at the time were that way. I remember Sheriff Mickey Owen saying one time that in Greene County, you don't have to prove your not guilty of murder, all you have to do is prove the SOB needed to be killed. Google him, he was a nice man. Never got to work for him, it would have been interesting, him and Buff Lamb
After I left the COP shop, I worked for and retired from an agency that demanded the use of deadly force for a list of property crimes! Look this one up under 10CFR and the Atomic Energy Act of 1952 as amended. Oh, their standard was two center mass and one to the head. I ended up with a glock
Still don't like them, the glocks.

EDIT BY MOD- Papps-play nice now. C3

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Last edited by c3shooter; 11-30-2012 at 11:14 PM.
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