Why Build? - Page 4
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > AR-15 Discussion >

Why Build?


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2011, 01:24 AM   #31
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3486 Times on 1612 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggsbakes View Post
but everything is Colt and I'm NOT a Colt fan. They've turned their backs on American shooters every chance they've had
You can't trust a Colt fan. Look at the filthy sidewinder we have running around here posting that stupid emblem in every thread.

NOT TO BE TRUSTED!!

I don't know of any of the guys' work, so I have no dog in this fight. But anyone that can't put out quality info in a legitimate fashion that is professional in presentation needs to be viewed with at least a bit of skepticism.

Being a gun rag whore, pimping whatever weapon system is spending money on advertising, is no different from selling someone a piece of gear you know to be a POS.

Not to be trusted.

JD
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:14 AM   #32
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
diggsbakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pueblo,Colorado
Posts: 1,680
Liked 8 Times on 5 Posts

Default

OK, fair enough. . . So tell us JD as an experienced AR-15 vet what sources of informative, illustrated, sequential, accurate documentation do you believe to be a helpful learning tool, that is currently available for a new AR-15 builder that's still wet behind the ears??? What literature (your recommended source) is written by a good honest trustworthy, credible, experienced individual???
diggsbakes is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:36 AM   #33
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3486 Times on 1612 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

I'm sensing some sarcasm and hurt feelers.

What source would I recommend? I would start with FTF. There are complete threads where people came in knowing next to nothing, asked good questions, listened to the answers and built well functioning weapons, a lot of times from the ground up.

Next?

I wouldn't trust buying books without knowing the author and his credentials. Which is why of all the books on weapons I own, the only one I own on this platform is the official M16 A2 Technical Manual from the USMC. And with that, I give it some "loose" credence.

I would go and find a good gunsmith. Make an appointment if you have to, and sit and talk AR's with them. I would have a list of specific questions and I would write down the answers.

Then I would do some cross referencing of information and make up my own mind as to what I think are the parts that I would like to use in MY build.

Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who's name is on the side, whose names' are on the parts, who's magazines you use, what matters is that it works FOR you and FOR YOUR purposes.

Having the stick of the moment that everyone is in awe over, that the press says is the ultimate zombie slayer, doesn't do you a damn bit of good if you don't know anything about it.
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 04:08 AM   #34
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
diggsbakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pueblo,Colorado
Posts: 1,680
Liked 8 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
I'm sensing some sarcasm and hurt feelers.
No way man! Your feeler sensor had a false alarm! You should know me better than that. I could really care less about the author of an AR book, that I've read through. Hell, I find him a bit arrogant and annoying myself, but his books have helped me. Sarcasm? No way JD, you misunderstand. . .

Here :


I constantly hear throughout my day things like: This won't work and that is a bad idea, don't do this. . . I rarely hear a positive alternative offered. It's very easy to point out flaws, it's not as easy to provide a fix.

I don't get hurt feelers, I lost those a long time ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
What source would I recommend? I would start with FTF. There are complete threads where people came in knowing next to nothing, asked good questions, listened to the answers and built well functioning weapons, a lot of times from the ground up.
As you know I use FTF (often yourself) as a primary reference. However it is not a portable collaboration of illustrations and data. It is more like a huge (and damn good) Q and A section.

We're talking books. Something I can throw in my gun case and take out to the garage while completing a detailed cleaning, or pack to the range to troubleshoot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
I wouldn't trust buying books without knowing the author and his credentials. Which is why of all the books on weapons I own, the only one I own on this platform is the official M16 A2 Technical Manual from the USMC. And with that, I give it some "loose" credence..

I would go and find a good gunsmith. Make an appointment if you have to, and sit and talk AR's with them. I would have a list of specific questions and I would write down the answers.

Then I would do some cross referencing of information and make up my own mind as to what I think are the parts that I would like to use in MY build.Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who's name is on the side, whose names' are on the parts, who's magazines you use, what matters is that it works FOR you and FOR YOUR purposes.

Having the stick of the moment that everyone is in awe over, that the press says is the ultimate zombie slayer, doesn't do you a damn bit of good if you don't know anything about it.
And that's why a guy should read a BOOK, see, we're on the same page!

Remember, we're talking about something for a guy to read before he begins his first build. Something he can stuff in his lunchbox or read a chapter while he's sitting on the john, something to look at when he's riding in the carpool on the way to the jobsite, just a little prepwork to save time and energy later.

I think everyone has the sense to ultimately do what works for them, but what we were discussing was literature that is basically "The AR-15 101" or The AR-15 For Dummies" (might exist?) or The Beginner's Guide to The AR-15" A basic overview of the platform,. its function, an exploded diagram of parts, common, accessories, etc. Nothing fancy.

The only reason name seven got mentioned was so a guy could do a google, head to the checkout and have a reference.

As far as the gunsmith idea. . . ? I haven't had the best experience with gunsmiths in my area. I'd rather take my own chances. . .

Last edited by diggsbakes; 03-23-2011 at 04:11 AM.
diggsbakes is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 05:29 AM   #35
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Quentin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,887
Liked 1200 Times on 836 Posts
Likes Given: 1238

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggsbakes View Post
...Quentin, I know you're not the only Sweeny hater here and it's GREAT! Makes for good conversation. So what AR-15 books and authors (besides Walt) do you find to be the most helpful or just a good reference? What would you recommend that a new guy to the platform read before getting his (nervously shaking) hands dirty, for the prevention of loss and frustration?

Even though I'm past the frustrating, although fun and a large part of the experience, learning curve point, I respect your opinion and want to know what author you respect and hold to be true and unbiased in his subject matter???
Alas, Diggs, I don't have any recent AR books that stand out. I have a couple Duncan Long books that were helpful and have a lot of data but it's dated. I wish Mas Ayoob would do an AR book because by far he's the gun writer I respect most today. Lots of experience, tells it like it is, doesn't ramble, stays on topic, gets it said efficiently without wasting words and has an excellent command of the English language.

I agree with JD that the TMs you can download are the best AR documents out there and the one that comes to mind for me is TM9-1005-319-23&P_change8_Technical Manual for M16A2, M4, M4A1_2008.pdf. You might be able to google it, I had trouble but finally found it somewhere and downloaded it. Also I believe you still can buy it printed as a book on Amazon but will have to look for it. The latest version I know of is November 2008 and the price was about $15. It's dry reading but everything you need is there.

Otherwise like JD said the best AR resources are on line. I copy and paste helpful things I find into a Word document and used to keep it somewhat in order but over the last couple years it's gotten pretty ragged. You might try something like that since it's the best way to tailor something just for you.

Anyway, this topic could make a great thread itself, maybe somebody does know a great book we all should know about!
__________________
______
The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together.
________________________________________
US Army 1966-69, VFW Life Member, Retired Geek
Quentin is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 03:28 AM   #36
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
easterner123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 348
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggsbakes View Post
I used to feel the same way about myself when working on automobiles, now I know the extent of my skills and can actually get quite a bit done when I start out with all the necessary tools, including knowledge, at least an overview.

If you go to Harbor Freight (or whatever your local crap tool store is) and buy a .99 cent set of punches and just start pulling up internet photos/instructions and go at it. . . you're gonna lose parts, make scratches and have a lot of frustration and probably get it done. . . eventually.

On the other (proper) side of the coin:

GET A BOOK!

Nobody does this, but if they did folks would save loads of time and money. Patrick Sweeny has three AR-15 books available that you will benefit from owning "The AR-15 Volumes I & II" and "Gunsmithing The AR-15".

If you don't like Sweeny (which some don't, but I find his writing easy to stick to and digest) or are just wish to spend less (and maybe get more) "The AR-15 Complete Owner's Guide" and "The AR-15 Complete Assembly Guide" both by Walt Kuleck are $10 each and are ALL you need to complete your build, service your rifle, troubleshoot, etc.

Listen . . . I was apprehensive at first too, in fact I almost just ordered an accessorized rifle. Now I have several that I had a BLAST doing. TAKE IT SLOW! Maybe even just a step or two after work, then review your prior day's work and go for another step.

It's Well Worth It! I promise.



SEE FOLKS, everyone develops their own style of building and taste in products and manufactures. I don't touch Colt either (ewwww)

BUT! You can't get to this point of enjoyment unless you man up, realize that you're gonna get frustrated and lose parts, but that's how you learn and all part of the fun. I'm topping off a rifle that'll make a half-dozen. . . all different1, now I'm getting ready to move on to another rifle platform and I know there will be frustration also. THAT'S PART OF LEARNING!!!

P.S. You'll thank me (and the rest of us here) for:

(buying an extra spring kit and detent/roll pin set for $10 a piece and a few buffer retainers and springs)
Well, I work in a machine shop, and parts breaking is a fact of life (something I know all too well ) I have been perusing the internet, and have compiled a list of what I thought were good deals. I like the idea that if I buy a stripped lower, it can just ship to my house, where a kit will be waiting.

Thanks for the help and support guys. I'm probably gonna ask a family gunsmith and/or some veterans. Can any vets attest to knowing their sweet 16 pretty well?

Also, I'm not looking for a tack driving rock solid rifle, nor am I interested in doing a tacticool project. Just a plinker with a little more oomph is all, and I have always been a fan of the A2s.

Here are some questions for experienced gunsmithers:
Are there a lot of parts I will have to force in?
Does most of the assembly happen inside or outside the receivers?
Do the upper and lower come with the necessary pins?
Does anyone, for the love of god, know a place where I can get some rails that don't cost nearly as much as my lower?!?!?!?
Also, are there any good videos that anyone knows about? (IF you have an account and want to show me something, that might be a good idea, as when I get the parts together I will likely start a different thread and ask questions, daily)

Call me spineless, I don't care who makes it, as long as it goes "bang" where and when I want it to.
__________________
"I only regret I have but one life to lose for my country" Nathan Hale

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Last edited by easterner123; 03-25-2011 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Response
easterner123 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 04:37 AM   #37
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Quentin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,887
Liked 1200 Times on 836 Posts
Likes Given: 1238

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by easterner123 View Post
... I like the idea that if I buy a stripped lower, it can just ship to my house, where a kit will be waiting...
Do you have a FFL? Or do you mean you're going to have the lower shipped to your FFL...
__________________
______
The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together.
________________________________________
US Army 1966-69, VFW Life Member, Retired Geek
Quentin is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 01:22 AM   #38
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
easterner123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 348
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Shoot. I looked it up, still has to go to an FFL. Oh well. My research is coming along, and I will soon be gathering the funds. I heard one can no longer get an FFL for personal use and just have a "business" out of their garage. Is this true?
__________________
"I only regret I have but one life to lose for my country" Nathan Hale

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
easterner123 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 02:36 AM   #39
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
diggsbakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pueblo,Colorado
Posts: 1,680
Liked 8 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by easterner123 View Post
Shoot. I looked it up, still has to go to an FFL. Oh well. My research is coming along, and I will soon be gathering the funds. I heard one can no longer get an FFL for personal use and just have a "business" out of their garage. Is this true?
That's a whole different issue that you can find he answer to in the FFL and class 3 section of this site.

As far as your previous post to start you need:
1 lower
1 LPK
1 Buffer Assembly
1 upper
1 BCG
1 Barrel
1 Gas assembly (block, tube, pins)
1 forearm and/or 1 delta nut/barrel nut assembly with HGs)
1 Stock
1 Upper parts kit (sights, EPC assembly, etc.)
1 FA assembly

(Recommended
1 spare st of pins and springs (at least buffer detent/spring and takedown springs/pins)
1 set of straight punches
1 set of roll pin starter punches
1 set of roll pin punches
1 set of receiver blocks
1 vise and/or clamps
1 roll of tape to mask areas exposed to scratches
1 BOOK!

"The AR-15 Complete Assembly Guide, Volume 2" Book by Walt Kuleck with Clint McKee - MidwayUSA

You say you work in a machine shop? If that's the case you know that part of being a craftsman is having all of the proper tools to complete a given job. Since you know that, I'm confident you'll buy the above book at least and all of the "Recommended" tools as well.

Note:
I probably missed at least one thing.
diggsbakes is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
My first AR build 2hot2handle AR-15 Discussion 16 11-29-2010 08:43 PM
Considering an AR build Angry_bald_guy AR-15 Discussion 16 07-29-2010 11:49 PM
My First Build mjkeat AR-15 Discussion 8 07-10-2010 01:29 AM
Why build??? Benning Boy AR-15 Discussion 20 09-21-2009 07:37 PM
First AR build ky2008 Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion 2 09-08-2009 01:22 AM



Newest Threads