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Old 06-25-2013, 04:09 AM   #11
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If needed you can always polish out the feed ramps, extension, and chamber to make it nice and smooth. I did this on my 7.62x39 AR build to prevent issues. Got the idea form Purehavoc. It some before and after pics.

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Old 06-25-2013, 11:27 AM   #12
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IMO, the AKs are clunky weapons compared to the ARs. In battlefield conditions it does seem that the additional reliability would give an edge to the AKs.
Reminiscent of the space program where we spent millions developing a pen that wrote in zero G while the russians simply used pencils.

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Old 06-25-2013, 12:37 PM   #13
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I sent 4000 + rds of tula down range last summer thru PSA and Spikes and have had zero problems. NO its not great ammo but its not any dirtier than WWB ammo . its not match grade ammo but it will still shoot 1.5 MOA .
It doesn't have the lacquer coating , its a very very thin poly coating that acts as a lubricant . Tikki , you now know the secret of how to get steel to run properly now get busy and fix the problem

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Old 06-25-2013, 03:44 PM   #14
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Heh. I was just reporting on what happened. I only ran a couple mags of the stuff in my girls. I usually run pmc and AE or Federal brass.

Gun #1 was a 14.5 carbine, frankenstien home brew with a Sabre Defence heavy barrel.
Gun #2 was a brand new PSA Carbine with FN barrel
Gun #3 was a brand new frankenstien home brew pistol PKArms barrel with a carbine gas system.

None of these birds were mine, tho I really did try and help these girls get back up and running. This was the relatively new stuff with poly coating. All 3 had the same problems. Cases that would not extract, even when pounding it out with a hammer.

Honestly most of these guys won't bother to take the time to work over their chambers like you guys. Buying brass cased ammo is probably gonna solve any and all issues in the future, as their particular builds obviously do not like them.

I did trade a couple mags of my relatively good stuff for tula and mfs to make sure it ran fine in my girls. I ran into no issues. (thank the lord).

I just wanted to share our experiences! I'm not making any judgements o

By the way...I LOVE my ar500 targets...3/8" is holding up fine with .223, 5.56, 45, .357. 9mm, and 40. Even as close as 15 yards. Nothing more satisfying than ringing steel.

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Old 06-25-2013, 03:54 PM   #15
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I remember reading an article by Patrick Sweeny on problems he had with polymer coated ammo if it was left sitting for a while in an already hot and dirty chamber.

Out of curiosity did the affected guns have chromed bores and chambers, and were the rounds allowed to sit in a warm chamber for a bit? How many rounds into shooting were the extraction failures experienced.

I know that there are theories out there about carbon blow by and buildup in the chamber contributing to sticky chamber problems with coated ammo. The theory being that the lesser expansion of the steel cases will allow more carbon to build up in the chambers and the combination of heat, coating, and carbon will kind if hot glue the casing in the chamber.

Sweeny's solution on a hot and dirty AR was to keep the chamber empty until he was going to be firing, so the coated rounds weren't sitting in a hot chamber.

Just curious, and some thoughts on how this might happen.

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Old 06-25-2013, 04:49 PM   #16
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The poly isnt like lacquer , if more like the consistency of a teflon coating , very very thin but not slick like teflon. So I dont think it would matter if it sat in a hot chamber . My problem with the 7.62 barrel was #1 its not chrome lined but Im not 100% sure that would have made a difference at all . #2 the chamber was just to tight and not cleaned up there were a few tooling marks in it and really needed cleaned up and isnt polished like a chrome chamber which caused some dragging on the steel cases during extraction . Brass expands and contracts very quickly thats just the nature of brass its springy , steel on the other hand swells and stays there which does create more drag during extraction . Now I didnt touch my feed ramps, I always say if it doesnt have issue feeding dont try to fix what isnt broke .

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Old 06-25-2013, 05:15 PM   #17
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Quite honestly, I wasn't keeping track of it as there was a lot going on. We did have some safety protocols, as in, do not load your boomstick until your are out on the range and ready to shoot. Unload your giggle stick, when bringing back to the table. So in theory there should have never been a round roasting in the chamber in the 90+ degree sun. But I can kind of see what he was talking about. I just asked and all three rifles with problems were chromelined bores and chambers.

It was hot enough to deform plastic containers. Even my plastic tool box, got deformed in the sun and wouldn't close right (the lid expanded and to the point the latches wouldn't latch right). I saw a few plastic containers of candies and the like outright deform into Dali-esque contorted shapes. According to the local weather report it was supposedly 97 degrees out that day. But it was hard to gauge the actual temp as there was a relatively strong wind that was keeping things cool. It was hard enough lift and destroy my new 12x12 shade stand even tho it was staked and had rocks to hold it down on all 4 corners. The wind was strong enough to make me give up on trying to get groups at 100 yards.......not because it was pushing the bullets around, but it was actually pushing the rifle around making it nearly impossible to get a stable sight picture.

On top of setting up targets, I was juggling trying to dial in my new adjustible gas block and being an impromptu RO, keeping an eye out for the newbies and helping them have a little fun. But I can say that problems didn't arise until at least after a couple mags.

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Old 06-25-2013, 06:06 PM   #18
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The coating on the steel cases is not the problem. The steel cases let a lot of residue blow by and into the chamber since they dont seal as well as brass. The carbon build up in the chamber causes the cases to stick. Make sure you clean the chamber after shooting steel and before you shoot brass. The brass will grab the carbon and jam if used immediately after shooting steel. The AK has a piston and dont get as dirty as the AR which craps in its own nest.

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Old 06-25-2013, 06:18 PM   #19
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I've put thousands of rounds of mixed steel (Tula, wolf, monarch,etc,) through all of my AR's, never had a problem. My S&W and PSA build just love to eat junk food.

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Old 06-25-2013, 06:21 PM   #20
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I have shot plenty of Tula with no problems. I have shot steel then brass in the same trip even in the same mag. A year of shooting without cleaning my rifle. Could the problem could be varying powder weights. Maybe some rounds are creating higher pressures.

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