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-   -   Spikes vs BCM Carry handle sight (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/spikes-vs-bcm-carry-handle-sight-78379/)

texaswoodworker 12-13-2012 06:03 PM

Spikes vs BCM Carry handle sight
 
A good sight is one of the last things I need for my build, and now I'm stuck between two of them.
From what I can see, the only difference between them is the name, and the price. The Spikes Tactical is $90, and the BCM is $110. Is there any reason I should pay an extra $20 for the BCM, or will this decision be based soley on which name I want on it?

Thanks.

JonM 12-13-2012 06:15 PM

Get a matech rear sight. I do a LOT of iron sight shooting and the cheapest best rear folder is matech, it has a working bdc lever. If you want simply the best get the rra national match a2 carry handle. No one beats rra in that area. Theirs is the only detachable that gives a true full range of elevation and windage out to 600m. They are a true .25/.25 moa click adjustment. Not even the colt match rifles are true moa clicks.

texaswoodworker 12-13-2012 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 1050284)
Get a matech rear sight. I do a LOT of iron sight shooting and the cheapest best rear folder is matech, it has a working bdc lever. If you want simply the best get the rra national match a2 carry handle. No one beats rra in that area. Theirs is the only detachable that gives a true full range of elevation and windage out to 600m. They are a true .25/.25 moa click adjustment. Not even the colt match rifles are true moa clicks.

Dang it, your making this harder. :D

I'm really set as far as price goes since I'm going to be out of a job until January. Depending on a few things, I may try to go for the RRA though.

As for the Matech, I was kind of set on a carry handle sight since I love the retro look it gives the rifle, and I like the simplicity. How does the Matech compare to a carry handle sight? What's a bdc lever? How good are folders s far as accuracy and durability?

Thanks

edit. I'd also like to add that I don't have great eye sight, so 100 years without glass is a bit of a challange. Most of my shooting will be within 25-100 yards.

Quentin 12-13-2012 06:50 PM

(First thing first, I am assuming you you have an F-marked FSB or proper milspec height front sight. If you have A2 height, reverse the following or better yet, buy a 0.04" taller front sight post to bring you up to flat top height.)

I'm also a fan of the Matech but if you want a carry handle, don't worry about going with the Spikes. Double check me but I'm almost 100% certain they use the standard milspec height FSB for their flat tops (F marked FSB) so the carry handles they sell will be the proper height for the front sight. Most carry handles aren't marked with the rifle makers name, just the forge mark, like Cardinal, Cerro Forge, Anchor Harvey, etc. They are sold to Colt, BCM, Spikes, etc. in proper milspec height and construction so it doesn't matter if you buy BCM or Colt or Spikes.

Now where you can get into trouble is that DPMS, Bushmaster, ArmaLite and a few others use the shorter FSB proper for the A2 integrated carry handle on their A4/flat tops. So their removable carry handles are 0.04" shorter than A4 milspec height.

Also you can occasionally find real milspec used carry handles on eBay in the $40-50 range. Just be sure they're not Chinese knockoffs or the wrong height. Below is an auction for a Colt pull off. The seller has 100% positive feedback and says "Came of my colt. Like new". Looking at the picture it does appear to be A4 height but it's not the greatest picture. You have a day to ask him questions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Colt-Carry-Handle-/281037800898?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416f28 85c2

texaswoodworker 12-13-2012 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 1050336)
(First thing first, I am assuming you you have an F-marked FSB or proper milspec height front sight. If you have A2 height, reverse the following or better yet, buy a 0.04" taller front sight post to bring you up to flat top height.)

I'm also a fan of the Matech but if you want a carry handle, don't worry about going with the Spikes. Double check me but I'm almost 100% certain they use the standard milspec height FSB for their flat tops (F marked FSB) so the carry handles they sell will be the proper height for the front sight. Most carry handles aren't marked with the rifle makers name, just the forge mark, like Cardinal, Cerro Forge, Anchor Harvey, etc. They are sold to Colt, BCM, Spikes, etc. in proper milspec height and construction so it doesn't matter if you buy BCM or Colt or Spikes.

Now where you can get into trouble is that DPMS, Bushmaster, ArmaLite and a few others use the shorter FSB proper for the A2 integrated carry handle on their A4/flat tops. So their removable carry handles are 0.04" shorter than A4 milspec height.

Also you can occasionally find real milspec used carry handles on eBay in the $40-50 range. Just be sure they're not Chinese knockoffs or the wrong height. Below is an auction for a Colt pull off. The seller has 100% positive feedback and says "Came of my colt. Like new". Looking at the picture it does appear to be A4 height but it's not the greatest picture. You have a day to ask him questions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Colt-Carry-Handle-/281037800898?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416f28 85c2

Here's what I have. It say's it's F marked.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm

Here's the spikes sight.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/sights-spikes-milspec-a2-carry-handle-p-327.html

So, I need an A4, or do I need an A2? (I've never really been clear on the differences.

Thanks for the heads up on the Colt. :)

JonM 12-13-2012 07:13 PM

Bcm uses proper milspec height fsb. The a2 refers to the style of the rear sight when talking about carry handles.

If 100 yards is the goal ive got a dpms handle if you want it for the cost of shipping it out. Its never going to get used and i could use the space.

The matech has a lever that goes from 200 to 800m just set it for range and it hits. Its just as accurate as any fixed carry handle as it flips up to the same place each time with no wiggle from use to use. Only other folding sight that does well in that regard are the mi sights and magpul mbus.

texaswoodworker 12-13-2012 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 1050365)
Bcm uses proper milspec height fsb. The a2 refers to the style of the rear sight when talking about carry handles.

If 100 yards is the goal ive got a dpms handle if you want it for the cost of shipping it out. Its never going to get used and i could use the space.

The matech has a lever that goes from 200 to 800m just set it for range and it hits. Its just as accurate as any fixed carry handle as it flips up to the same place each time with no wiggle from use to use. Only other folding sight that does well in that regard are the mi sights and magpul mbus.

If the DPMS will work with my upper, I'll take it!. :D

How good are DPMS sights?

Thanks!

Quentin 12-13-2012 08:08 PM

Like JonM said A2 refers to the A2 style sight built in to the carry handle (which is like the sight found on the M16A2, not the old style sight on the older M16A1.) Now the original M16, M16A1, M16A2 and M16A3 rifles had integrated (non-removable) carry handles while the revolutionary M16A4 introduced the flat top upper receiver and removable carry handle. (Many companies do use A3 for a removable carry handle but really should use the A4 terminology.) So the A4 removable carry handle does have A2 style sights built in! Clear as mud, huh! :D

JonM 12-13-2012 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texaswoodworker (Post 1050377)
If the DPMS will work with my upper, I'll take it!. :D

How good are DPMS sights?

Thanks!

The rear peep is just a basic two position rear peep with small and large aperture. Looks like any other ar15 rear. Adjustment quality... very rough and probably not accurate, in that move x clicks you get x movement on paper. Only rear that is click for click on paper runs about 190$ for a match grade one from rra. None actually track true less you pay for that type of precision.

For what you want to do it doesnt matter, get it sighted and leave it. After that whether it tracks true or not doesnt matter.

Honestly both bcm and spikes likely source the internal sight parts from dpms. What matters more is the actual handle itself. It doesnt take much varience in height to be too far out of kilter to not be on paper with max adjustment on the front sight post

Quentin 12-13-2012 08:24 PM

One thing about a carry handle, I wouldn't spend $110 for a new one when used ones are just fine. You really have to make an effort to damage one. Many of us have one laying around to use occasionally and by then it doesn't make any difference if it was brand new or used.

I do like having one around, there's just something about that old school look plus if you want to have a lot of fun google IBZ or RIBZ and start reindexing the elevation wheel!
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/328143_RIBZ_____Revised_Improved_Battlesight_Zero_ _now_with_down_loadable_50_yard_zeroing_target_.ht ml


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