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Old 11-09-2010, 03:56 PM   #31
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I think I'll just stick to my "slow", about 3000FPS, .223 round and call it a day. So much cheaper!

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Old 11-09-2010, 03:57 PM   #32
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I think I'll just stick to my "slow", about 3000FPS, .223 round and call it a day. So much cheaper!
Which is why you see so many people opt for the chrome barrels in that round, to make them last longer. It's a viscious circle...
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:02 PM   #33
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I don't have a chrome lined barrel, heard it kills accuracy somewhat. Mine ha s a stainless bull barrel though, and I figure I should get four or five thousand rounds through it no problem. Is that estimate off? I don't load my rounds to hot.

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Old 11-09-2010, 04:03 PM   #34
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bkt - Do you want this second AR to be a semi auto? Or is a bolt on bolt action a viable option for you?

I can't find an AR-15 upper with a cartridge that I would consider to be a good 400 to 600 yard round, even if I factor in reloading. Anything that is going to hit with any power at that range is going to require reloading, and even then you are looking at a moon shot because of the massive drop from about 450 out to 600 yards.

All the more reason for a custom AR-10 me thinks.

JD

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Old 11-09-2010, 04:05 PM   #35
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I don't have a chrome lined barrel, heard it kills accuracy somewhat. Mine ha s a stainless bull barrel though, and I figure I should get four or five thousand rounds through it no problem. Is that estimate off? I don't load my rounds to hot.
Nah. You should be fine if you take care of it and clean it proper.

The chrome lined is for heavy, sustained full auto fire of those same rounds you are talking about. Lots of heat going from zero to smoking, so barrel life is a concern.

For the average shooter going to the range with 100 yards for a couple of hours of fun once or twice a month, you will never need the kind of "protection" that chrome lining is offering.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:33 PM   #36
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Oh, I go alot more than once or twice a month, but I shoot so slowly the barrel never even gets warm to the touch. I put at least 100 rounds through it every weekend, but I figure it will be years before that barrel is toast. And when it does go, it'll just give me an excuse to buy a Krieger.

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Old 11-09-2010, 05:02 PM   #37
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bkt - Do you want this second AR to be a semi auto? Or is a bolt on bolt action a viable option for you?

I can't find an AR-15 upper with a cartridge that I would consider to be a good 400 to 600 yard round, even if I factor in reloading. Anything that is going to hit with any power at that range is going to require reloading, and even then you are looking at a moon shot because of the massive drop from about 450 out to 600 yards.

All the more reason for a custom AR-10 me thinks.

JD
Bolt action is fine. And if this isn't a good platform for something that can reach that far, no problemo. I'll just have another AR. That doesn't suck. Or, I'll re-think my wish list.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:06 PM   #38
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Unfortunately all of the real long range stuff for the AR15 platform is still kind of exotic, ie. new rounds, wild cat rounds, stuff that you have to hand load for. Doen't make it any less cool though. I have been loading some heavier weight bullets for my .223 to see just how much range I can get out of that caliber. I have been shooting some 69 grain bullets that seem to be pretty dang acurate out to three hundred yards, but I will see what they can do at 450 this saturday shooting some metal silhouettes. My science experiment this winter will be to load up some 75gr. A Max's and see what they do. Have you thought of just keeping it a .223 with a 1:8 twist barrel so you can shoot some heavier bullets for longer range. There are some 80gr. bullets out there, but you have to load them longer than std. oal, so you can only hand feed them.

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Old 11-09-2010, 06:05 PM   #39
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^^So you have not seen the sites with all of the math done? Or the <alt> numerical keys that have all of the symbols you need to show the math? Ballistic formulas are out there for all to see and use. Most of the sites don't even require a useless math degree to follow. Just sayin...

CAD programs are easily transferred to a post or e-mail. Just sayin again...
Yes I have seen them but I run a custom Arch-Linux system. And no they don't transfer their apps.

There are some major differences. Not everyone runs a useless Windows based computer.

Next time you can answer the math questions OK.

Just sayin
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Old 12-05-2010, 12:55 PM   #40
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You are going to go broke loading for the Grendeal regardless because I think the only company that makes brass for that round at this point is Lapua, and we are talking over 100 bucks for a bag of fifty. My pops has an AR with a Grendel upper. Nice rifle, super accurate, has a recoil about like a 20 guage shot gun, but I wouldn't read into al the hype about this being such a great 1000 yard caliber. The accuracy really does kind of go into the crapper much past 600 yards. Even though balistically, they surpass the .308 at 600 yards in terms of speed and energy. Don't ask how this works, but I have seen it first hand and shot the rifle at these ranges. Olympic Arms does make some uppers with some wild calibers though, for a decent price, but you are going to have to hand load for them.
I reload my own Grendel stuff. You pretty much have to. Started swaging bullets for it as well.I've been swaging bullets for my AR since getting into them a good while back. Expensive to get tooled up for sure, but if you do a lot of shooting. The same for all my 30 cal stuff as well. The great thing about the 5.56's is that the jackets are free for the taking at the range. The lead is basically free from local tire shops. I buy the stuff by the bucket from them, paying a few cents more per pound than the local scrap dealers, and pick it up. Win/win for the tire folks and myself. The 6.5 brass I get by hydraulic swaging using a Lee press and 7.62x39 brass. Presently working on a custom homebuilt press and locally machined dies to form and reload steel case rounds. The press is being built from 1 inch carbon steel plate and 1.5 inch stainless all thread as a base. Powered by a 5 ton hydraulic jack. The dies are being machined from some round stock my machinist has on his shelf, and case hardened to 60 plus Rockwell. Might be expensive to begin with, but with all that free steel laying around on the ground...

I found that a well tempered depriming rod designed on the basic military depriming set up that Lee markets, will knock the anvil out of the Berdan cases, leaving a clean ignition hole. This is all time consuming as well. But, this is what the DIY concept is all about, right?

In as much as a long range cartridge set up for an AR is concerned, they were not designed, fundamentally, as a long range battle rifle. They are a midrange platform. That is until the concept of a 50 BMG upper was brought into play. Don't make the mistake I made and pay off a credit card full of Barrett M82. Fun, yes...in fact, fun doesn't even begin to define what owning a Barrett semi auto is about. But, from an economic standpoint, those married members out there, (I'm single and lovin' it) you could probably come closer to convincing the wife on a $1200 buck upper assembly way sooner than a 7K outlay for a Barrett. Then you have to plop down 2 to 3 grand for a scope. Can't put a cheap tactical on an M82 now can we? When dealing with a utilitarian upper for an AR, you can put pretty much anything you want on it. So long as it holds up the reflex caused by the massive recoil. A good muzzle brake will decrease felt recoil, but the platform itself will feel every single bit of the massive power stroke.

I know this has strayed off target, but in line with a long range concept of a AR-15, you will have to look at the 6.5 version to enjoy the full benefits of retained terminal performance on a living, breathing target. Or, pin on a 50 BMG upper and invest in a simple reloading set up.
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