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bluez 09-22-2013 12:37 PM

SIG 516 after 1030 rds of no cleaning
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Was doing an experiment with this piston gun.

I know some Carbine schools have famously gone much further w/o cleaning but this is as far I wanted to take it.

Also it's not just "how far can I take it and it still work" but also "It being a Piston, I am curious how dirty or not dirty it will be after all those rounds".

Cleaned it today at approx 1030 rounds.
There was not a single malfunction during those 1030 rounds.

At that it didnt look clean but it wasnt filthy either:

- Lot of oil from my original heavy oiling (for storage) still left over too.
- Barrel was quite dirty as expected
- Used my chamber stars for the first time. Not sure how to do it so I improvised ( check last pic)

Nowhere was there caked-on Carbon to work on. All the dirt you see even in pics 3 and 4 was spray and wipe, and mos tof it seemed to be a mix of lube and some carbon or dirt but nothing caked on by heat.

jjfuller1 09-22-2013 01:28 PM

It is probly just my ocd but to me that chamber is filthy.... where can I get those stars they look like they would work good

bluez 09-22-2013 01:44 PM

There was a lot of oil left over from running it too wet and it had gotten dirty.
I got the chamber stars from of my LGS.

fordracing 09-22-2013 02:58 PM

Took my 516 to the range for the first time on fri. The range officer at Wicens, Tony, was the best. He helped me sight it in with my new scope. Had a blast. Put about 400 rds down range.

But I had some issues. Lots of failure to feed. Bolt didn't lock back on the last round a couple times.
Possible reasons:
1- before I ever shot this rifle, I cleaned it and double treated it with Frog lube. That was months ago. I like this stuff but maybe I should have used some of the liquid stuff on it right before I went. It seemed to be pretty dry.. After the malfunctions the range officer sprayed the bolt with some oil and that seemed to help.
2- magazines are loaded and stored at all times.
3- gas valve setting was at normal setting. Shot 55 grain Remington and pmc

Any thoughts?

Took it home and cleaned it and found that it was cleaner than my direct impingement rifle. But I did find a lot of carbon on the piston. The lower was spotless.
The chamber had some fouling but nothing like DI.

sandog 09-22-2013 03:33 PM

Keep the BCG damp with lube on a DI carbine and the carbon wipes off fairly easy. The piston guns get carbon, just in a different place, and the carbon seems much more baked on. I've noticed this also with the FN Fal, Mini and other piston arms. I saw this test the other day, where 4 identical Bushmaster carbines were shot 10,000 rounds each with minimal cleaning, to test reliabilty, accuracy and wear of a brass cased round, the Federal American Eagle, against 3 Russian steel cased loads. Interesting how the Federal had not a single malfunction, and caused very little bore wear compared to the bi-metal jacket Russian ammo, which wore the rifling down to where bullets were key-holing.

bluez 09-22-2013 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by fordracing (Post 1379915)
3- gas valve setting was at normal setting. Shot 55 grain Remington and pmc

Any thoughts?


Which PMC was it?
The 223 Bronze or the 5.56 XTac?

I have not shot the 223 Bronze thru my rifle yet, but on other rifles I noticed that the 5.56 mm PMC XATC defiently had a significantly louder report and more flame than the 223 Bronze.

The 223 PMC is quite a bit softer loaded than 5.56 that would explain your short cycling, being that the rifle is designed for 5.56.

turning the gas selector to "adverse" would adjust for softer ammo.

I dont know what my have cause failure to feed though.

My 516 is the Gen 1 BTW

EDIT: just saw that your bolt didnt lock back on last round not during the rest of firing order. So you likely were not shortcycling but experiencing a magazine issue .

bluez 09-22-2013 03:54 PM


they get get the carbon elsewhere but it does not affect function in the same way.
I saw that test also BUT it involved a lot of magdumps and was definetly extra hard on barrels.

Also the SIG 516 has a CHF barrel unlike those Bushmasters, so the main reason I dont use the cheaper russian ammo is that its not allowed on my range with the piston making their dirty nature less of an issue, the CHF barrrel, and rifles actually being cheaper over their life than the ammo to shoot them I wouldn't mind using he russian ammo. :)

sandog 09-22-2013 05:52 PM

I have never had a function problem with DI carbines in the 38 years I've been shooting them, but I try to clean mine every couple of hundred rounds and keep them lubed.
I have been getting some of the PMC X-Tac 62 gr. lately for range use so I don't have to use up my SS109 ammo. It is as accurate as my other 62 gr. loads,1 1/2" groups at 100, chronoghraphs @ 2850 fps. out of my 16" barrel, so loaded a bit lighter than 62gr. NATO loads, which get a bit over 3000 fps. It responds to a magnet, so has the steel penetrator core.

bluez 09-22-2013 05:59 PM

Sandog I agree. Nothing wrong with DI. I am just going another route mostly for the fun of being different :)
When pisotn becomes the new standard you might find me owing all DI guns again just to be a contrarian.

Incidentally the PMC Xtac 62 gr is SS109 Ammo.

fordracing 09-22-2013 07:19 PM

223 bronze. Got a safe full of it

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