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Old 08-17-2010, 01:02 AM   #21
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Damn,I guess I'll just have to chop up & discard my AR's.
If my RRA Varminter didn't rate high on some BS list,I know my home built one must really be a piece of crap according to the jackwagons that make up such list.
It sure is funny that I have shot thousands of rounds out of both,with ZERO problems,and they both shoot sub-moa with handloads.
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:07 AM   #22
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Well again I would encourage people new to the AR to look at the M4 Chart and take the time to understand it before buying or building an AR because it will help you understand your rifle. I don't see how it can hurt if you take the time to understand it. Most of the oldtimers here know which "rules" can be broken but new people should pay attention because the chart information is solid and is updated (last update was Feb. when Charles Daly was removed after they closed their doors and Daniel Defense was added).

I find the chart actually is helpful building ARs other than "M4geries", in fact the ArmaLite in the chart is a midlength with an HBAR, no M203 cutout and no bayonet lug. Quality manufacturers tell you what kind of BCGs, barrels, etc. go into their rifle length ARs and non-M4 carbines like the midlength so you can determine how they would rank if placed in the chart.

It's true only 14 manufacturers are listed but if you know what went into your AR you can easily "make a spot" for your rifle on the chart. My mix'n'match certainly isn't listed on the chart but I know where it would rank because I chose quality parts that are ranked.

Probably a good way to first use the chart is ignore everything except each manufacturer's bolt carrier group since the BCG is so important. Look how poorly the BCGs score on the right end of the chart and yet those manufacturers charge about the same for theirs as the ones that use proper Carpenter #158 steel, are properly staked and score 6 out of 6. The better BCGs can be found for about $130 if you're looking to buy separately so why would anyone with this information chance a DPMS that got 0 out of 6?

Then look at the barrel/upper and then the lower - the manufacturers who scored well in BCG also score well here and the ones that scored poorly fall down here too. There's a pattern and it is smart to use this data when choosing a rifle. The ARs on the right are not junk and they will function but why not aim higher?

I think the biggest problem with the chart is that the forum that hosts it can be brutal to new people. Nothing like the friendly people here. People over there are real quick to slap you down if you don't recite the mantra right away.

Oh well, I'm not trying to cause trouble, just another point of view. And the bottom line - it really doesn't matter what others think about you or your stuff as long as it works and you're happy with it.

Last edited by Quentin; 08-17-2010 at 06:37 AM. Reason: Corrections, wording...
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
it really doesn't matter what others think about you or your stuff as long as it works and you're happy with it.
+1 for truth...
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:04 PM   #24
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This post got me looking around, and while I think the Smith & the RRA are very serviceable fighting rifles, if I had $1500 to spend and wanted to buy a finished rifle, my money would go to the Daniel Defesne M4v3 Lightweight (lightweight profile, midlength gas system), then buy a Blue Force Gear VCAS sling, and some white light.

Rock River Arms - AR-15 Discussion

Of course, you could spend $700 on the Smith, add the options you want, and spend the difference on ammo so you can learn to really shoot it. Its like the difference between the Springer Loaded, Operator, and TRP models. They are all good fighting pistols, and you have to decide which one your needs require and your budget allows.

Attached is a review of the DD rifles I found at Kyle Defoor's blog.

Kyle Defoor: Daniel Defense M4
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:31 PM   #25
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I think the "chart" has its place. Individuals shouldnt make purchases based on the "chart" but believe the inventers of this chart are people who use their AR to earn a living. I no longer do but know that in such a case you want to be damn sure your equipment will not fail under heavy use. A coupe thousand rounds over a few years isnt hard use IMO. My understanding hard use is hundreds if not more rounds of rapid/steady fire in one heart pounding event. For me most any AR will give me a day of enjoyment at the range but theres something about knowing your AR is capable of anything you throw at it.
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:39 PM   #26
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sorry guys not tryin to thread hi-jack or anything. but i keep seein posts about a incident with a boat and a lake or similar. i really hope im not bringing up a sensitive subject if i am in advance i apologize i hate to hear that people lost good firearms but need to know. it is better to learn to from others mistakes right...
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:57 PM   #27
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Default Note to stupid....

You mean I've built my lower and not referred to this M4 CHART.....Lesson #4 Look at the M4 Chart so you can be absolutely positive that you have a MAN GUN!

I hope spikes tactical,brownells oversized mag button, bad lever and the dpms kit are on there somewhere....if its not I'm going to have a meltdown. Iv'e shared my innermost failings with you guys/gals and nobody mentioned "THE CHART". I suppose you were all going to let me build my first personalized,custom sweeetheart of a rifle and then gleefully tear it to shreds with laughter, criticism and snide remarks! This is an outrage. I'm requesting that the CHART be posted at the TOP OF THIS FORUM so us neophytes don't suffer demonization from you veteran builders. I can see it now...POST TO EVERYONE....PLINKERS GOT A FAG GUN!
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:00 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by mach1337 View Post
sorry guys not tryin to thread hi-jack or anything. but i keep seein posts about a incident with a boat and a lake or similar. i really hope im not bringing up a sensitive subject if i am in advance i apologize i hate to hear that people lost good firearms but need to know. it is better to learn to from others mistakes right...
Yes, never take all of your firearms along on the annual FTF fishing trip and never, ever, let a guy named Gary into your home.
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"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:25 AM   #29
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This is Gary getting ready to embark on the last fishing trip. Remember this face.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:47 AM   #30
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Default Note to stupid....apology

SOrry I blew up over the M4 CHART.....I felt my manhood had been challenged and because I lacked attention during the formative years of my life I tend to take things way too personal, especially when it comes to my first build. I love this gun I'm building and treating her like the girl I wanted to lose my virginity to but didn't. If you are buying way good parts that cahrt dont mean squat...good barrel, good bolt, good upper and lower and you are pretty much good to go IMHO. If it is any consolation I have decided that my penance should be to become a supporting member. Sorry for the outrage!
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