Re: Spikes Tactical buffers - Page 2
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > AR-15 Discussion > Re: Spikes Tactical buffers

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2011, 02:12 AM   #11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mach1337's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 364
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

humm i noticed all of them have some bounce. the least seemed to be the rifle buffer the bcm h and st-t2 now the question is which one for my 16" mid length.

__________________

"Which is heavier a soldiers pack or a slaves chains" Napoleon
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."Thomas Jefferson
"You know why there's a Second Amendment? In case the government fails to follow the first one."
-- Rush Limbaugh, in a moment of unaccustomed profundity
"No combat-ready unit ever passed inspection, and no inspection-ready unit ever passed combat."

mach1337 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 02:21 AM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mjkeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wichita,Kansas
Posts: 4,026
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts

Default

Deffinately good things to think about.

I pulled out a ST-T2 and gave it a shake. I can hear the powder but it doesnt sound like theres that much movement. More like its just shy of being topped off.

Im always looking for something better though. My ears are always open to new ideas.

I have always felt heavier is better. Well the heaviest that will still allow your rifle to cycle.

__________________
mjkeat is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 02:24 AM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3478 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

You are very correct in that all normal buffers have weights. The difference is that the weights themselves are CONSTANT. You have two or three or four discs that bounce the same almost every time.

It's much closer to a consistent you can plan on.

I want you guys to know that I respect the hell out of you. Gate, mjkeat, Quentin - you guys have ALL brought a ton of help to the AR section that was basically just slowrdy45 and myself for the longest time. *much respect*

Reading your posts, I have learned stuff that I hadn't thought about before, so please know that I am offering this opinion based on shop experience with buffers and NOT with this product specifically.

So, please take the post with a healthy dose of respect as it was intended.

If you look into the history of the M16 A2 you will find that someone came up with a solid block that slid right into the cleaning hole in the A2 stock that was supposed to help with accuracy by adding a solid base to the platform.

Wasn't a big seller.

Why? Opinions vary, but one of them is that it added a ton of weight to the BACK of the weapon and made rapid follow up shots difficult, but the theory was sound. For the 60's/70's.

The reason there isn't a solid one-piece-stock CNC buffer, of pre-engineered weight, as far as we can tell from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

Without "some" movement within the buffer itself, you get a rolling block/teeter totter at the back of the weapon instead of the "smoother" recoil of a buffer tube with limited movement.

That's right guys, we tried to invent a solid block of a buffer, of exact weight, for an angle on the market. It shot great for one shot. Then it took about 6 to 8 times as long to line up your next shot.

Some movement of the buffer is needed to offset the rock/roll of the action. A lot of movement is not desirable to me, personally, but if you guys are getting great results - that is good to hear.

Respectfully,

JD

__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 02:36 AM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3478 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
I agree the 9mm and carbine weight buffers seemed to be the worst. I think you're right that the 9mm doesn't have individual weights or slugs. Very interesting video anyway, wish there was more...
9mm Buffers are commonly used by guys that shoot reduced power loads, or loads on the low end of the power spectrum, perhaps because they are reloading for light weight/grain bullets for more of a varmint application.


I don't personally recommend something like a light weight buffer tube unless you are specifically shooting light loads as stated in a different thread.

JD
__________________

Last edited by Dillinger; 02-11-2011 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Confused Problems and Solutions - spring stretching has nothing to due with this discussion
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 02:53 AM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrMilspecer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Great N.W.,Oregon
Posts: 126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
I agree the 9mm and carbine weight buffers seemed to be the worst. I think you're right that the 9mm doesn't have individual weights or slugs. Very interesting video anyway, wish there was more...
Cool video Quentin. The rifle buffer looked to have very little bounce.Middy had a little. I was also suprised the carbine didnt bounce even more. Very neat.
__________________

Last edited by MrMilspecer; 02-11-2011 at 03:02 AM.
MrMilspecer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 03:02 AM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Gatekeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Uniontown,PA
Posts: 3,710
Liked 8 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
9mm Buffers are commonly used by guys that shoot reduced power loads, or loads on the low end of the power spectrum, perhaps because they are reloading for light weight/grain bullets for more of a varmint application.

It's common for guys to change to a 9mm buffer, run into slam issues with regular ammo, than "stretch" a spring to a basic compensation.

After a few hundred or a thousand rounds, they are in the shop looking for help.

I don't personally recommend something like a light weight buffer tube unless you are specifically shooting light loads as stated in a different thread.

JD
9mm buffers are very heavy(about twice the weight of a carbine buffer)
The added weight is needed since 9mm AR's are blowback instead of gas operated.
No wonder those guys are having problems running a 9mm buffer with reduceds power loads.

If they are using a heavy 9mm buffer with light loads I'm sure they'd run into all kinds of short stroking problems, unless their guns are WAY over-gassed
__________________

----------Gate
______________________________________________
Hellfire, Doom, Watch the hatred spin
Beyond the speed of sound---
Fire it up, Let the engines roll
It's time to burn it down

Gatekeeper is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 04:58 AM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Quentin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,544
Liked 1000 Times on 703 Posts
Likes Given: 1001

Default

JD, that's very interesting about the solid block buffer you worked on and the conclusions you came to. Thank you, I always learn something from your posts!

As far as buffers, there's a lot going on and this is an area I need to put more thought to.

__________________
Quentin is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 02:29 PM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3478 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatekeeper View Post
9mm buffers are very heavy(about twice the weight of a carbine buffer)
The added weight is needed since 9mm AR's are blowback instead of gas operated.
No wonder those guys are having problems running a 9mm buffer with reduceds power loads.

If they are using a heavy 9mm buffer with light loads I'm sure they'd run into all kinds of short stroking problems, unless their guns are WAY over-gassed
EDIT From Above - I effed up my explanation above. Apologies all around. The string stretching is an unrelated issue in this discussion and I am a moron. Got my "problems/fixes" confused.

Gate - That is true, but the 9mm is a pistol cartridge and the buffer it is replacing is a rifle cartridge (IE - more pressure).

When you have a very short barreled AR, like a 10.5" entry gun, there is significantly more pressure that is hitting the gas tube/BCG/Buffer & Spring than in a 16" or longer model. Having a heavier buffer helps to handle that change in pressure, but the problem develops when you go to a lighter load with less burn because of a highly flammable or flash-over possibility like a Meth Lab.

A lot of the AR's that we work on come into the shop in SBR configurations where PD and other folks have been tinkering with various swap and play components for their personal needs. Than they are exposed to a change in situation due to training and suddenly there is a "problem" with the weapon.

I don't know, I am certainly no expert. I can only go by what I have seen and I am certainly not qualified to write a paper on the stuff.

YMMV
__________________

Last edited by Dillinger; 02-11-2011 at 02:33 PM.
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 02:48 PM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3478 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
JD, that's very interesting about the solid block buffer you worked on and the conclusions you came to. Thank you, I always learn something from your posts!

As far as buffers, there's a lot going on and this is an area I need to put more thought to.
It was something that came up in conversation when we ran into an SBR that we couldn't get to fire subsonic stuff with any sort of reliability. Now this was an older gun, probably 8 years or so of constant service and the owner (SWAT Instructor ) is a pretty good guy when it comes to maintenance, but this one rifle would just all of a sudden pick a point where it would stop cycling with subsonic stuff.

We tried everything. Different gas tubes, different BCG, different gas block, and we also tried monkeying with the weights that were in the buffer. We mixed and matched and got to a point where we color coded like 8 different weights and sent him to the range with an allen head and an understanding of how to swap them out for testing.

Some would work for 200 rounds into full auto fire, some would work to 500, some would cycle half a mag and hang up. It was like Murphy himself was hiding in the weapon.

It got to where we were spit balling ideas of "what if" and the discussion came to pressure, weight of the BCG, weight of the buffer, force required to compress the spring and we kind of got to a point of "eliminating" possibilities".

A rock solid buffer, made to weight based on the mathematics seemed like a good idea. We don't have any CNC equipment, but Brett is pretty talented with the lathe and the end mill, so he banged one out of a solid block of aluminum and we gave it a try.

*shrug* Should've, Could've, but didn't work like we (very little me, mostly the other two guys in the shop) had planned. Fire off a round and that weapon "rolled" back over the handle area way high on target like a pivot point, almost like a chassis of a car unloading, and then came back down heavy and well below the target for follow up shots. The faster you fired, the worse the grouping got... LOL

Maybe we needed a lot more math and a lot more components, but eventually Brett got the AR in question running like a champ and the idea kind of died out.
__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 05:22 PM   #20
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Squirrel_Slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Rocklin,California
Posts: 1,135
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

My rifle operates perfectly fine. I know I should not mess with anything as it isn't broken. I was just contemplating ways to reduce recoil even further so I can stay perfectly bucked in and watch little critters explode through my optic. .223 doesn't have much oomph at all, but unless I have the rifle bucked in tight against my shoulder it's just enough to push my eye away from the scope. I suppse I could always pay a smith to port the barrel for me or have the barrel threaded for a muzzle break. Right now, as it sits, the rifle weighs a tad over 13 pounds.

__________________
Squirrel_Slayer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Spikes Tactical [It's here!] Gloves AR-15 Discussion 31 01-13-2011 02:07 PM
Spikes Tactical (y/n?) Gloves AR-15 Discussion 8 12-08-2010 05:11 AM
CMMG or Spikes Tactical? indyfan AR-15 Discussion 32 10-28-2010 11:15 PM