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Old 04-08-2010, 10:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Marksman View Post
Fluting will not have anything to do with accuracy but as said before it will aid in cooling and weight reduction. I have an 18 inch Stainless Steel fluted Sabre Defense barrel and it is extremely accurate
You hit it right on the head.

http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/realbenefitsbarrelfluting.asp
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:26 PM   #12
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If you take a bull barrel and flute it (properly) you will not affect the accuracy much, if at all. It will not get more or less accurate, it will simply get lighter. Some theorize a fluted barrel is MORE rigid than a comparable unfluted barrel. I do not believe this to be true. A fluted barrel is probably more rigid than an unfluted barrel of equal weight and consequently (potentially) more accurate.

There is more surface area on a fluted barrel so it should cool better, but the cooling effects may be overrated.

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Old 04-10-2010, 12:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
While you may personally believe that, I would challenge that statement on any shooting range in the world with rifles produced to the exact same specs, having the only difference be a true bull barrel versus a fluted barrel.

But that is my personal belief based on experience that I have personally seen.

JD
You are of course welcome to your own opinion and me to mine but I have some experience in this particular subject myself, which is one of the main reasons I opted for a fluted barrel. If you would go to Sabre's website (Sabre is well known as one of the top tier barrel manufacturers) and take a good look at the section on barrels you will notice that with the exception of their tactical barrels, every one is fluted including the competition barrels. I'm pretty sure that they have done enough research to know whether or not fluting would or would not negatively effect accuracy. I have had both fluted and non fluted barrels and both will shoot much better then most of the shooters who own them. I still maintain that other then weight and cooling, flutting is a non issue.
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Marksman View Post
You are of course welcome to your own opinion and me to mine but I have some experience in this particular subject myself, which is one of the main reasons I opted for a fluted barrel. If you would go to Sabre's website (Sabre is well known as one of the top tier barrel manufacturers) and take a good look at the section on barrels you will notice that with the exception of their tactical barrels, every one is fluted including the competition barrels. I'm pretty sure that they have done enough research to know whether or not fluting would or would not negatively effect accuracy. I have had both fluted and non fluted barrels and both will shoot much better then most of the shooters who own them. I still maintain that other then weight and cooling, flutting is a non issue.
And we can agree to disagree, which I am fine with on this issue as it is HIGHLY subjective to who is doing the talking.

Sabre is a high end AR manufacturer. No argument there.

They are NOT a high end BARREL manufacturer. No one is ordering a "Sabre Barrel" for their AR to take to Nationals or to a 3-Gun. Why??

Because Sabre is selling you a barrel that THEY believe is one of the best.
Sabre is a BRAND built on a very quality assembled AR from the ground up, which happens to include a barrel that they have decided is the best FOR THEIR PRODUCT.

I have no doubt that your fluted 18" barrel (I believe from reading your posts) shoots as well as anyone here can shoot it. I believe that you did your research and that you feel that barrel is absolutely the best for your needs. Absolutely no argument from me there. There is NOTHING wrong with a SABRE barrel.

However, let's stick to the facts here for a moment.

Sabre uses Button Rifling, according to many sources. There is nothing wrong with that.

But Single-Point, Cut Rifling is the gold standard by which others are judged.

Now, 5R is making a play for the top competitor, and as I have a rifle in the shop getting a 5R barrel I will let the forum know the results of that experiment.

But right now, Single Point, Cut Rifling is the end all beat all.

Now, as to the question at hand: Does Fluting Make a Difference In Accuracy.

This is HIGHLY subjective as I have stated numerous times because there are "experts" on both sides of the fence.

I have personally had a bull barrel rifle that I had "properly fluted" by my gunsmith of whom I also shop rat for and respect a great deal. The weapon dropped a ton of weight, but the even though it was the same ammo ( Federal Gold Medal Match of which the chamber was cut for using a brand new reamer ) and the same shooter ( me ), I noticed a difference in the grouping ability of the rifle. The barrel was a Krieger and the caliber was in a .308

At the end of the day is the average shooter going to notice a level of accuracy changed by fluting on an AR type of weapon? No, not in the least.

But everything being 100% equal, I have personally seen a difference with proper fluting affecting accuracy on a very, VERY good rifle.

JD
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:00 PM   #15
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Sorry to revive this topic, but I came across some information which might provide a different perspective on this issue. According to a handbook on firearms and ballistics I've been reading, the point of fluting is to aid in extraction for blow-back firearms (like the H&K P7 which I believe is fluted).

"Fluted chambers are longitudinal flutes which are deeper at the forward end of
the chamber and taper off towards the rear. These allow the gases produced on
firing to flow back over the outside of the cartridge case during firing. This
counters the internal pressure and ‘ lubricates ’ the case, thus facilitating the
extraction process. This is utilized in blowback and delayed blowback weapons
where pressures are relatively high, thus making extraction difficult" (Firearms and Ballistics, B.J. Heard).

Having said that it still doesn't explain why it would be useful for other applications mentioned previously.

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Old 02-25-2011, 04:07 PM   #16
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gman - That is talking about internally in the chamber. The flutes we were discussing in this thread are on the OUTSIDE of the barrel.

Two different animals.

JD

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Old 02-25-2011, 07:52 PM   #17
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Car 54, don't feel too bad- there ARE firearms with a fluted CHAMBER. Makes really funky marks on fired brass.

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Old 02-25-2011, 08:57 PM   #18
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Anyway, it was nice to see this older thread. Thanks for the excellent explanations JD. Very informative as usual.

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Old 02-26-2011, 12:13 AM   #19
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i can see both points of the argument on accuracy: on one hand you have a solid barrel (bull), with full spine (heft of extra metal), then you have a fluted barrel, NOT NECESSARILY WITHOUT full spline, but without the heft of extra metal.................that being said, i would reason that the "spine" would change the accuracy by changing the harmonics, and depends on how many, and how close together the flutes are spaced.

lets use numbers:

a bull barrel has a spine "strength" of say = 100;

a fluted barrel of 5 flutes has strength of = 80;

a fluted barrel of 6 flutes has strength of = 65;

a fluted barrel of 7 flutes has strength of = 50;

so in a way, you ARE losing NOT JUST WEIGHT, BUT SPINE TOO, THUS CHANGING HARMONICS.

as for the normal shooter noticing the difference, it is most likely accurate enough.

but with JD, he knew what his particular barrel WOULD do before having it fluted, and after fluting, HE noticed that it wasn't holding the same pattern............he knew his rifle, and knew what it should've been doing.................CHANGE IN HARMONICS OF BARREL = ACCURACY PROBLEMS.

my $.02

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