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Speezly 02-03-2013 06:50 PM

Quad rail questions.
I have a Stag 15 model 1L. I am thinking about upgrading to the Samson quad rail used on the 2t's. I have several rifles but this is my first time with the AR platform. What kind of advice can you lend me? Personal preferences? I am thinking about getting a eotech or something similar. That do you think?

kbd512 02-03-2013 07:54 PM

I've answered this question about as best I can in a posted response to a thread entitled "Quad Poll", but I'll answer it again.

1. If you are not a government user who needs an IR laser, in addition to a white light, with remote switching options then there's not much sense in having a quad rail.

The Troy Alpha rail weighs less than most any aluminum quad rail system and permits you to configure the rail system with lengths of rail where you need them.

As a civilian user, all I need on my AR is a white light. I have a mount that threads through a hole in a standard plastic handguard for that purpose.

2. Optics are best mounted on the receiver rail where they do not negatively impact weight distribution or balance. If the rail is not extremely solid and the same height as the receiver, expect to have problems with fore end rail mounted optics. Extremely solid generally means heavy.

3. If you must have an EoTech, purchase the XPS model. Since you have a Stag, I'll assume that you're wrong handed. Therefore, get a XPS model with the buttons on the back versus the left side of the optic.

4. Consider an Aimpoint Comp M3 or Comp M4. I don't need the extra weight, cost, or slight improvement in durability that the Comp M4 offers, so I use a Comp M3. Obviously the batteries are cheaper and easier to replace with the Comp M4, but I don't replace batteries very often and I maintain a stash of spares. If weight and availability of replacement batteries are really important, then the Aimpoint Micros use CR2032 batteries (watch batteries) and the optic is obviously significantly lighter than any model of Comp or XPS. I don't like the small tube of the Micros.

Battery life on the EoTech is not good, but the XPS offers the best battery life and the batteries are the same type that SureFire weapon lights and flashlights use. I've left an Aimpoint Comp M3 I purchased in 2009 on at three settings from the highest settting and the battery is still working and the highest setting is still very bright. I typically forget to turn the EoTech XPS off after using it and the batteries don't last too many cycles before draining.

I like both and use both, but the Aimpoint is simply a better tool.

5. If you are a government user who isn't mounting a rail mount grenade launcher like a LMT, then the Troy Alpha Rail or Battle Rail or whatever marketing terminology they're using to market the rail with now is still going to suit your requirements better than a quad rail.

6. Quad rails are old technology and while they may look really cool, the extra weight and bulk is not so cool. Cost is what it is.

Before the Troy Alpha Rail came along I owned 2 SureFire quad rails, which were about as light weight as quad rails could be had when SureFire introduced them. I had one for a carbine and one for a rifle. The rails were slightly heavier than the stock plastic fore ends, but the difference in balance with the electronic stuff attached was noticeable.

I'm not a fan of vertical fore grips, either, but if there's no place to put your hand after mounting your favorite electronic gizmos then you're gonna need a fore grip of some kind.

It's your money and you have to carry it, but I recommend going light weight and not being overly concerned with cost. If you think an optic is worth having, then save the little bit of extra money for an Aimpoint unless you are primarily using the weapon indoors where the wider field of view that the EoTech offers might be worth it.

kbd512 02-03-2013 08:12 PM

Correction to the title of the post I previously answered, it's "OEM or Quad poll".

Also, if you are mounting optics, make sure you get a quick release mount of some kind from a reputable manufacturer. I like the Larue Tactical and GG&G mounts, but I've used ARMS in the past.

I use a GG&G lever mount for my XPS and a Larue Tactical for my Comp M3 and Aimpoint Magnifier.

I'm not a fan of the thumb screw mounts. I realize that they're cheaper and generally come with the optics, but a bit of mud on a locktited thumb screw mounted optic will render your rifle useless unless you can clean the optic or remove it. If you need to remove your optic quickly to switch to your iron sights, then the quick release mounts are not optional.

Speezly 02-04-2013 12:43 AM

Great info. I'm looking into the xps as we speak, and plan on going with the gg&g quick release. The Troy battle rail might be what I go with, I just really like the way the Stag model 2t looks with the Samson quad and arms buis. I'm definitely going to look around and see what suits me best, and I won't be changing anything immediately. I love the way the Stag feels at the range as is, but the urge to put all sorts of extras onto it is too much to resist.

kbd512 02-04-2013 06:05 PM

If the rifle is primarily a range toy, then weight doesn't really matter and you can purchase whatever pleases you that you can afford. If the rifle is primarily for defense then excess weight and especially unbalanced excess weight always work against you.

I have not had any problems with my GG&G quick release for my XPS, but I generally try not to beat the crap out of my optics.

If you do go with the Samson, I'd go with the Samson Evolution rail systems, as they function and are designed much like a Troy rail, which is to say that the system is modular and reduces weight to an absolute minimum by not having any more Picatinny rail on the sides or bottom than is absolutely necessary for the configuration you run.

I admit that my AR is a lot like my daughter's Barbie, but the only useful accessory apart from an optic and sling that I have on my carbine is a white light.

I like the SureFire X300 (170 lumen model for indoor use) and SureFire X300 Ultra (500 lumen model for outdoor use). All other weapon lights that SureFire makes weigh more than the X300 series and none provide any measurable increase in functionality, run time, or configurability. Any X300 can be remotely activated or activated with the dual switches mounted on the light.

My only complaint about the X300 is that the polymer rails preclude mounting it on a gas block without switching to a Larue Tactical lever mount. I'm not sure how much money SureFire saved by using polymer instead of aluminum, but to me it means having to spend an extra $100 or so to buy the type of aluminum mount that the light should have been designed with in the first place.

Bushman 02-07-2013 10:51 PM

Ive got a Stag 2T which came with the Samson Star-C Free Float Quad Rail.
Great rail, IMO. The empty weight for the rifle was at about 6.5 pounds. nice and light.
The Samson quad rail has QD sling mount holes on the left and right, rear part of the rails, and one on the bottom up front. The bottom of the rails has a couple of take down pins to allow for the bottom to be removed for installation of M203 launcher or shotgun mount.
Currently I have a top mounted tac light on it and a Magpul AFG on the bottom and am running a Comp ML3.

Speezly 02-12-2013 04:28 AM

Great looking stag! I was hoping to find a 2tl, being left handed and with the current frenzy of gun sales, I searched high an low for a lefty and was lucky enough to come across the model 1L. Ill be sure to post some pics once I get her setup properly.

Bushman 02-12-2013 02:49 PM

Wow! you found a rifle for sale? Looking at the Stag Website, the 2T is backordered one year!!!
Rough times we live in, and it's gonna get rougher.
As far as the Aimpoint / Eotech thing, I know guys that would only have one, and I know guys that would have the other. Just personal preference.
Personally I think the battery life on the aimpoint was the selling point for me. Secondarily, the simpler dot reticle is what I prefer. With my astigmatism, the dot has some ghosting to it, at long distances, so something simple made more sense.
That and I got a killer deal on it...

Speezly 02-13-2013 03:19 AM


Originally Posted by Bushman
Wow! you found a rifle for sale? Looking at the Stag Website, the 2T is backordered one year!!!
Rough times we live in, and it's gonna get rougher...

I had to call in a few favors to get it. I have still yet to see any stag at a gun show before or after. Rough times indeed.

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