Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > AR-15 Discussion > Problems with the M4?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-12-2009, 11:17 AM   #1
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
TXnorton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Katy,Texas
Posts: 1,376
Default Problems with the M4?

This article was on the Fox news web-site as well as in my local paper this morniing.

Any feed-back from forum members who have had experience with high volume fire through the M4?

Did Weapons Fail U.S. Troops During Afghanistan Assault? - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com



__________________

TXnorton

TXnorton is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 10-12-2009, 11:46 AM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 202
Liked 23 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

OH NO.....here we go again!

Some previous responses:

1. The M16 / M4 is a flawed design and is not reliable.

2. I have fired tens of thousands through my M4 in Iraq with no issues.

3. I have an Ar 15 and it works great.

4. We need to go back to the M14.

5. The AK 47 is a superior weapon.

6. We need the FN FAL.

7. Troops need to maintain thier equipment.



__________________
crockett007 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 03:59 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 665
Liked 208 Times on 127 Posts
Likes Given: 289

Default

I am a strong advocate of the M16/M4 design and have always thought that it is a superior weapon, and I still do. However, if one weapon fails in combat due to design flaws, it is too many. I don't see how people aren't mad about this. One guy seen his buddy killed right next to him, and when he tried to return fire, he had a weapon malfunction? That is garbage!!

Do I think that there are better weapons out there that could be fielded be the U.S. Military? You bet I think that there are better weapons out there that could be used by U.S. troops. I do think that by the time that we get that many weapons over there to replace the M4 it will be too late.

I think that this should be looked into as this is not the first story I have heard of about the U.S. firearms failing during a fire fight, just the first where troops have been killed as a result of the firearms failing.

__________________
CaseyChadwell is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 04:54 PM   #4
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
TXnorton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Katy,Texas
Posts: 1,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crockett007 View Post
OH NO.....here we go again!

Some previous responses:

1. The M16 / M4 is a flawed design and is not reliable.
2. I have fired tens of thousands through my M4 in Iraq with no issues.
3. I have an Ar 15 and it works great.
4. We need to go back to the M14.
5. The AK 47 is a superior weapon.
6. We need the FN FAL.
7. Troops need to maintain thier equipment.
Crockett: Yes, those are the typical responses from people who have not used an M4 in a combat situation. But what I was asking is if any forum members actually had any first hand exerience with the M4 in high volume firing situations.

Many of us (including myself) have M4orgeries, ie. 16 " flattop AR carbines that "look" like M4's, but they are still just semi-auto AR-15's. There are a number of active members here who have recently spent time in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. It was their perspectives on this subject that I was hoping to get in response.
__________________

TXnorton

TXnorton is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 05:13 PM   #5
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
matt g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,885
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Any of the problems that I had were standard M16 family issues. Namely double feeds and jams, some of which required dropping the magazine to clear. I've also had them run sluggish due to carbon fouling, over oiling and sand in the bolt carrier. This proves true for the M16A1s, M16A2s, M16A4s and M4s that I've used.

Most of these issues can be solved by retrofitting to a more reliable op rod gas system.

__________________

"'Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky? "
Roger Waters

Vote freedom, join the Libertarian Party.

matt g is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 05:40 PM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IGETEVEN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tornado \"Just Blow Me\" Alley,Oklahoma U.S.A.
Posts: 8,424
Liked 26 Times on 21 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt g View Post
Any of the problems that I had were standard M16 family issues. Namely double feeds and jams, some of which required dropping the magazine to clear. I've also had them run sluggish due to carbon fouling, over oiling and sand in the bolt carrier. This proves true for the M16A1s, M16A2s, M16A4s and M4s that I've used.

Most of these issues can be solved by retrofitting to a more reliable op rod gas system.
What Matt said is very close to accurate, from my experience. Also, the AK 47 is a superior weapon (less malfunctions), believe it or not, in most instances of short range combat fire, just from my own personal experience.

Jack
__________________
Jack

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter." - Hemingway

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.”
IGETEVEN is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 05:55 PM   #7
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
matt g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,885
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGETEVEN View Post
What Matt said is very close to accurate, from my experience. Also, the AK 47 is a superior weapon (less malfunctions), believe it or not, in most instances of short range combat fire, just from my own personal experience.

Jack
The M14 is superior to both.
__________________

"'Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky? "
Roger Waters

Vote freedom, join the Libertarian Party.

matt g is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 06:03 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,198
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Most of what we got to carry were A1's, A2's and A4's. There were a few short barreled pieces that were available, but none of our group ever wanted to carry any of them due to charging issues. Most of us voted for (more like ran and grabbed) either M14's, Uzi's or MP5's if they were there. Like previously stated, any issues were pretty much standard issues with M16's, and quite a few were directly related to maintenance. But, we did notice that under sustained auto fire, when they heated up, the issues were more prevalent. They ranged from complete stoppage, to FTF's, double-feeds, to FTE's. Again, like Matt said, most could be cleared by dropping the mag, cycling the action a few times, clearing the jam, fresh mag, and back into action. The complete STOP - was always an because at times there was no reason or indication of why it happened. And like the article, often had disastrous results. I can't say that our issues were due to dust, as we were in tropical climates - high humidity, mud, bugs, muddier water, etc. So instead of blowing dust out of the action, it was trying to wash the mud and bugs out, specially in the gas system. A piston system design might have helped. I know quite a few of us ended up grabbing AK's - simply because they didn't quit.

__________________
slowryde45 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 07:33 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IGETEVEN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tornado \"Just Blow Me\" Alley,Oklahoma U.S.A.
Posts: 8,424
Liked 26 Times on 21 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt g View Post
The M14 is superior to both.
Indeed, no disagreement there. Also, as Slow stated "As we were in tropical climates - high humidity, mud, bugs, muddier water, etc. So instead of blowing dust out of the action, it was trying to wash the mud and bugs out, specially in the gas system. I know quite a few of us ended up grabbing AK's - simply because they didn't quit."

The AK's worked better in the jungles too, truth.

Jack
__________________
Jack

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter." - Hemingway

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.”
IGETEVEN is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 11:06 AM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 202
Liked 23 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXnorton View Post
Crockett: Yes, those are the typical responses from people who have not used an M4 in a combat situation. But what I was asking is if any forum members actually had any first hand exerience with the M4 in high volume firing situations.

Many of us (including myself) have M4orgeries, ie. 16 " flattop AR carbines that "look" like M4's, but they are still just semi-auto AR-15's. There are a number of active members here who have recently spent time in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. It was their perspectives on this subject that I was hoping to get in response.
Yes I understand. But, really, I think all of us (ex-military) with experience, realize that the services as a hole are plagued with weapons issues concerning reliability. Your question is specific, but generally has been asked and answered subjectively many times. No offense intended sir


__________________
crockett007 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
GSG-5 Problems Tacnationinc .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion 10 10-27-2009 12:44 AM
FTF problems.... Dr. Marneaus 1911 Forum 23 04-13-2009 01:31 AM
Problems of a Lefty RyanMann General Rifle Discussion 10 02-16-2009 09:17 PM
K98k problems..please help Slickrick214 Curio & Relic Discussion 14 02-09-2009 02:09 PM



Newest Threads