Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com

Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/)
-   AR-15 Discussion (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/)
-   -   Problems with the M4? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/problems-m4-19055/)

TXnorton 10-12-2009 11:17 AM

Problems with the M4?
 
This article was on the Fox news web-site as well as in my local paper this morniing.

Any feed-back from forum members who have had experience with high volume fire through the M4?

Did Weapons Fail U.S. Troops During Afghanistan Assault? - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

crockett007 10-12-2009 11:46 AM

OH NO.....here we go again!

Some previous responses:

1. The M16 / M4 is a flawed design and is not reliable.

2. I have fired tens of thousands through my M4 in Iraq with no issues.

3. I have an Ar 15 and it works great.

4. We need to go back to the M14.

5. The AK 47 is a superior weapon.

6. We need the FN FAL.

7. Troops need to maintain thier equipment.

CaseyChadwell 10-12-2009 03:59 PM

I am a strong advocate of the M16/M4 design and have always thought that it is a superior weapon, and I still do. However, if one weapon fails in combat due to design flaws, it is too many. I don't see how people aren't mad about this. One guy seen his buddy killed right next to him, and when he tried to return fire, he had a weapon malfunction? That is garbage!!

Do I think that there are better weapons out there that could be fielded be the U.S. Military? You bet I think that there are better weapons out there that could be used by U.S. troops. I do think that by the time that we get that many weapons over there to replace the M4 it will be too late.

I think that this should be looked into as this is not the first story I have heard of about the U.S. firearms failing during a fire fight, just the first where troops have been killed as a result of the firearms failing.

TXnorton 10-12-2009 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett007 (Post 172984)
OH NO.....here we go again!

Some previous responses:

1. The M16 / M4 is a flawed design and is not reliable.
2. I have fired tens of thousands through my M4 in Iraq with no issues.
3. I have an Ar 15 and it works great.
4. We need to go back to the M14.
5. The AK 47 is a superior weapon.
6. We need the FN FAL.
7. Troops need to maintain thier equipment.

Crockett: Yes, those are the typical responses from people who have not used an M4 in a combat situation. But what I was asking is if any forum members actually had any first hand exerience with the M4 in high volume firing situations.

Many of us (including myself) have M4orgeries, ie. 16 " flattop AR carbines that "look" like M4's, but they are still just semi-auto AR-15's. There are a number of active members here who have recently spent time in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. It was their perspectives on this subject that I was hoping to get in response.

matt g 10-12-2009 05:13 PM

Any of the problems that I had were standard M16 family issues. Namely double feeds and jams, some of which required dropping the magazine to clear. I've also had them run sluggish due to carbon fouling, over oiling and sand in the bolt carrier. This proves true for the M16A1s, M16A2s, M16A4s and M4s that I've used.

Most of these issues can be solved by retrofitting to a more reliable op rod gas system.

IGETEVEN 10-12-2009 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt g (Post 173119)
Any of the problems that I had were standard M16 family issues. Namely double feeds and jams, some of which required dropping the magazine to clear. I've also had them run sluggish due to carbon fouling, over oiling and sand in the bolt carrier. This proves true for the M16A1s, M16A2s, M16A4s and M4s that I've used.

Most of these issues can be solved by retrofitting to a more reliable op rod gas system.

What Matt said is very close to accurate, from my experience. Also, the AK 47 is a superior weapon (less malfunctions), believe it or not, in most instances of short range combat fire, just from my own personal experience.

Jack

matt g 10-12-2009 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGETEVEN (Post 173131)
What Matt said is very close to accurate, from my experience. Also, the AK 47 is a superior weapon (less malfunctions), believe it or not, in most instances of short range combat fire, just from my own personal experience.

Jack

The M14 is superior to both. :D

slowryde45 10-12-2009 06:03 PM

Most of what we got to carry were A1's, A2's and A4's. There were a few short barreled pieces that were available, but none of our group ever wanted to carry any of them due to charging issues. Most of us voted for (more like ran and grabbed) either M14's, Uzi's or MP5's if they were there. Like previously stated, any issues were pretty much standard issues with M16's, and quite a few were directly related to maintenance. But, we did notice that under sustained auto fire, when they heated up, the issues were more prevalent. They ranged from complete stoppage, to FTF's, double-feeds, to FTE's. Again, like Matt said, most could be cleared by dropping the mag, cycling the action a few times, clearing the jam, fresh mag, and back into action. The complete STOP - was always an :eek: because at times there was no reason or indication of why it happened. And like the article, often had disastrous results. I can't say that our issues were due to dust, as we were in tropical climates - high humidity, mud, bugs, muddier water, etc. So instead of blowing dust out of the action, it was trying to wash the mud and bugs out, specially in the gas system. A piston system design might have helped. I know quite a few of us ended up grabbing AK's - simply because they didn't quit.

IGETEVEN 10-12-2009 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt g (Post 173137)
The M14 is superior to both. :D

Indeed, no disagreement there. :D Also, as Slow stated "As we were in tropical climates - high humidity, mud, bugs, muddier water, etc. So instead of blowing dust out of the action, it was trying to wash the mud and bugs out, specially in the gas system. I know quite a few of us ended up grabbing AK's - simply because they didn't quit."

The AK's worked better in the jungles too, truth. :cool:

Jack

crockett007 10-13-2009 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXnorton (Post 173103)
Crockett: Yes, those are the typical responses from people who have not used an M4 in a combat situation. But what I was asking is if any forum members actually had any first hand exerience with the M4 in high volume firing situations.

Many of us (including myself) have M4orgeries, ie. 16 " flattop AR carbines that "look" like M4's, but they are still just semi-auto AR-15's. There are a number of active members here who have recently spent time in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. It was their perspectives on this subject that I was hoping to get in response.

Yes I understand. But, really, I think all of us (ex-military) with experience, realize that the services as a hole are plagued with weapons issues concerning reliability. Your question is specific, but generally has been asked and answered subjectively many times. No offense intended sir:)


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:16 PM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.