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-   -   Please tell me where I'm going wrong here. (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/please-tell-me-where-im-going-wrong-here-74548/)

Fumbles 10-17-2012 11:54 PM

Please tell me where I'm going wrong here.
 
Okay. I hope this is not dumb. I have not thought it through deeply or looked stuff up, it just occurred to me and I figured someone here would know, out of all you experts on all things AR.

1. Am I correct to assume AR-15 pistols are legal in CA with the usual bullet button, 10 rd cap etc? I'm assuming it 'cos I have seen guys at the range with them.

2. Am I also correct to assume that the AR-15 pistol has a buffer tube that will accept an AR type stock, or can be fitted with a rifle buffer tube/stock ass'y?

3. So............could one own an AR-15 pistol and keep it legal......but if the S ever HTF then conceivably one could fit a rifle buttstock/buffer and have a short barrel CQB type entry gun.......yeah?

Also, if yes on 1. & 2. is it legal to build out a pistol, from parts like you would a rifle.....just using a 14.5" barrel or 10" or whatever length you choose? I emphasized pistol because the build would be legal under the CA law and requirements.

If I am wrong, can you explain what special features an AR pistol has that disables it from being a rifle? I am not.....repeat NOT........suggesting any illegal behavior at all. Not for me and not for anyone else or the website. It is just a curiosity I have and besides, if things ever got that bad that the average law abiding citizen has to defend himself and family, loved ones etc against a mass populace out of control.....then regular law enforcement has failed and I do not think they will be going around looking for law abiding folks who have made their weapons as effective as possible for home defense etc.

mountainman13 10-18-2012 12:23 AM

I would assume they are not legal in California without an sbr license.

X-mark 10-18-2012 01:36 AM

AR pistol is legal, but there are hurdles...

If you do not already have a registered pistol lower with the state, you must DROS the lower as a single-shot...this means a middle-man or your FFL must install a "sled" in the magwell so that you cannot install a magazine into the magwell. One way around the "single-shot" DROS is if you PPT an AR pistol lower from someone else that already has the lower registered in the state. If you go the "single-shot" route, then once it is DROSed and you take possession of it, you may remove the sled, install a BB, and use 10 round mags.

Now, once you have an AR pistol lower, you CAN NEVER INSTALL A STOCK ON IT...If you do throw a stock on, then it is no longer considered a pistol...it will now forever be a rifle and you will be breaking the law by reverting it back to pistol form.

Using a carbine receiver extension is a gray area when it comes to pistols. To be safe, I would just use a pistol receiver extension, like the one Spike's Tactical makes.


The above information is how I understand it and may not be the truth. For your own due diligence, I suggest you do some reading on calguns.net

Dillinger 10-18-2012 01:50 AM

It's an interesting quandary, and one that has come up before actually. So as clever as you thought you were, someone beat you to it. :p

First thing, the buffer tube on the pistol style AR's is about 1.25" on an exterior dimension and is completely round. Or, it's supposed to be.

Now here is the specs of the dimensions of a standard and a mil-spec buffer tube for an AR-15. Slightly smaller, but not by a lot. 1.160" to 1.173" and 1.170"-1.185" depending on model (some vary depending on maker).

http://media.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/StaticPages/pdf/instructions/Receiver_Extension_Comparison.pdf

The Magpul Stock MOE dimensions on just the stock are 1.163" to 1.173" on a commercial and 1.145" to 1.150" on a mil-spec

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2319180434/magpul-stock-moe-collapsible-ar-15-carbine-synthetic

So, you could drill out the stock to 1.27"-1.30" to cover, weaken the whole thing in the process, and it "will" fit.

Problem is, you see the locking, running rail on the bottom of the buffer tube?

That is what the collapsible stock locks into, so no rail, no locky-uppy.

Which means come SHTF you have a weakened stock that only goes all the way on to the back of the receiver. Which, unless you have alligator arms, isn't going to help much.

And in assembling the two components you have thus violated Federal law, SHTF or not, and you are looking at serious time.

Hope that helps.

JD

USEBOTHHANDS 10-18-2012 02:03 AM

when S does HTF, DO YOU think it's really gonna matter that you changed out the pistol buffer tube to a rifle buffer tube with a 4 - 6-position stock and made the pistol an SBR???????????????????????????


HA....................HA.......................... ...HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


I

DON'T

THINK SO!

Dillinger 10-18-2012 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USEBOTHHANDS (Post 980918)
when S does HTF, DO YOU think it's really gonna matter that you changed out the pistol buffer tube to a rifle buffer tube with a 4 - 6-position stock and made the pistol an SBR???????????????????????????


HA....................HA.......................... ...HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


I

DON'T

THINK SO!

I thought you were more in tune with the game USE. :(

Do you REALLY think your version of SHTF and the Official Version of SHTF, is ever going to match up? :o

Katrina was in some sense SHTF to many people. However we saw police still in full effect and in some cases confiscating guns, thus an illegal SBR would have put your happy ass in the pokey (and I mean that in more than one way) for a LONG, LONG time.

Think man! THINK!!!

USEBOTHHANDS 10-18-2012 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 980937)
I thought you were more in tune with the game USE. :(

Do you REALLY think your version of SHTF and the Official Version of SHTF, is ever going to match up? :o

Katrina was in some sense SHTF to many people. However we saw police still in full effect and in some cases confiscating guns, thus an illegal SBR would have put your happy ass in the pokey (and I mean that in more than one way) for a LONG, LONG time.

Think man! THINK!!!


Okay, ya got me. MAKE SURE SHTF and TEOTWAWKI "IS" goin on aroundju before you convert an AR-pistol to an AR-rifle. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES CONVERT A PISTOL TO A RIFLE WITHOUT PROPER AUTHORITY AND WRITTEN APPROVAL FROM YOUR FRIENDLY BATFE (which prolly will NEVER happen once it is registered as a pistol).


Katrina.......................nah, Katrina was a test.......just a test.

PD were brot in from outta state (WAY OUTTA STATE) to "assist" the people and "help" them store their weapons.....properly. it was a free-for-all, and NO ONE stuck together.

REMEMBER, I AM FROM HERE.

an ex- (i won't say ex- what) was "re-activated" for the purpose of "dealin with" special targets in a certain area of N.O.

Nagan was requested to "make" the call on the weapons, and see what would happen.

i know the score, man. as long as the game plan ain't compromised, the ball will still be in play.

SHTF will ALWAYS be a "perception." but whose perception IS the question, answer, and key.....................

ALL FOR ONE, AND ONE FOR ALL IS THAT KEY!

X-mark 10-18-2012 02:49 AM

This is CA we are talking about. CA laws trump all SHTF scenerios (although, this is more federal law here, CA still likes to make its own rules). If the ground splits open during an earthquake, and your car plummets down into the abyss at 90+ miles per hour, you can be damn sure you will be getting a speeding ticket.

Fumbles 10-18-2012 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-mark (Post 980953)
This is CA we are talking about. If the ground splits open during an earthquake, and your car plummets down into the abyss at 90+ miles per hour, you can be damn sure you will be getting a speeding ticket.

LOL.....so true X-mark. Or the ubiquitous "Unsafe Lane Change".....a catch all for "I don't know what you did exactly, but something you did looked a tad suspect....and with the state broke and all.....I gotta get you for something....so suck it up, I'm gettin' you for Unsafe Lane Change. License, registration and proof of insurance please. Any weapons in the car? ":D


I had no idea that the AR pistol lower has to be registered as a single shot. Great info and I did follow up at Calguns.

Thanks.

Yes Dillinger, it is very unlikely to me things will get so fleash eating zombie bad in this country....unless we are attacked from without and within and civil unrest spirals out of control etc etc. I don't even want to think about that. So yeah, modifying a weapon to illegal levels seems crazy stupid.

Thinking about it though....maybe with a RD or holo sight, an MS3 sling and ASAP fitted to a short barrel AR pistol... this could result in a highly maneuverable weapon system. To me, pictures of folks holding the AR pistol at full extension with both hands on the pistol grip, look very uncontrollable and even uncomfortable. I could be wrong but one hand on the pistol grip, the other on the barrel guard and pushing against the sling....seems a more efficient way.

Thank you.

okdonk 10-18-2012 04:12 PM

Having an AR pistol WITH rifle tube instead the PISTOL tube is allowed and yes you can! As long no stock on it.


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