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Old 01-28-2013, 05:03 AM   #41
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GP and 10, it was a fair comparison. Cheap tools will do light jobs but you get in trouble if you push them too hard. A cheaply made AR full of non-spec parts will let you down if you run it hard and possibly at the worst moment. It's wise to buy good tools and wise to buy good firearms. If a DPMS is working out for you, fine. But with all the corners they cut why recommend it to a new buyer when a milspec PSA costs the same money? Misery loves company?

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:37 AM   #42
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GP and 10, it was a fair comparison. Cheap tools will do light jobs but you get in trouble if you push them too hard. A cheaply made AR full of non-spec parts will let you down if you run it hard and possibly at the worst moment. It's wise to buy good tools and wise to buy good firearms. If a DPMS is working out for you, fine. But with all the corners they cut why recommend it to a new buyer when a milspec PSA costs the same money? Misery loves company?
I understood what you were getting at with this. My DPMS was my first rifle, I didn't want to get into a serious platform when I had a lot to learn. I just wanted to know if there were issues or complications I needed to learn about before using it as a possible patrol rifle. I appreciate the information.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:23 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Quentin
GP and 10, it was a fair comparison. Cheap tools will do light jobs but you get in trouble if you push them too hard. A cheaply made AR full of non-spec parts will let you down if you run it hard and possibly at the worst moment. It's wise to buy good tools and wise to buy good firearms. If a DPMS is working out for you, fine. But with all the corners they cut why recommend it to a new buyer when a milspec PSA costs the same money? Misery loves company?
I get what you are saying, probably better than most as I've been turning wrenches since I was 15. I've used many different brands of tools over the years, and you are correct that the cheap ones will fail if put under lots of high stress. I've experienced it first hand trying to save a few bucks. About 10 years ago I started using Matco stuff and while I still have tool related failures from time to time, it is less often. However, I do still experience failures from time to time. The lifetime warranty is nice, and the fact that they come to me once a week saves me lots of time. But all that aside, I didn't buy nice high end tools when I started as I did t know if I wanted to invest so much into something I may not want to do all my life. I mean as of now, between my box and all the tools in it, it was probably over $40k. I recently decided to leave the trade due to wear and tear on the body that auto work causes. When I got ready for an AR, I looked at everything discussed on here. I took a lot of information posted by many users, yourself included, and info from friends and fellow range members. I got a really basic DPMS for $650 just before the election. I wanted the platform there so I could tweak and add options, but I wasn't quite comfortable with building it from scratch. (I am sure I can do it no problem, I just wanted some hands on experience first) I guess what I'm getting at is that a new first timer has quite a few unknowns to discover. The average first time owner isn't likely firing over a couple thousand rounds a year. They will probably cause as many problems with a poor understanding of mechanical function and self inflicted errors from add ons. Unless you plan on riding a new ar like a rented mule, start slow and learn would be the best way I could put it. In a normal economy, you don't pay $1000 for a rifle and sell it for $2000. You'd typically take at least a small depreciation loss. Maybe I'm totally wrong in my take on this, but I just wanted to dip my foot in the pool to see if I really wanted to get in before just diving in head first. I haven't changed much on mine, just a quad rail, mil spec tube, and a decent lower end optic. I even got the ATI .22 upper in anticipation of supply problems such as we are currently experiencing. I bought all those on a very small budget. The rail was $50 incorrectly priced at a local academy sports store (supposed to have been $85) the tube was $30 on sale in a kit, and the optic I got off eBay for $90 (yes yes I know, cheap optics aren't my first choice but after 6 months unemployment I don't really have anything to put in it). So for roughly $850 I got a decent looking AR that functions well for my use.

At the end of the day, I still fully respect your opinion and will continue to look to you for advice in the future should I need it. (And I'm sure I will need some, I prefer to learn from other folks hands on experience far more than trial and error) I just tell my experiences, which are far less than yours in this arena, in the hopes that others can learn from experiences told first hand and not some stories that are diluted and handed down from forum to forum becoming at some point nothing other than incoherent dribble I've seen so many times. (Not calling you that, just stuff I've seen posted and reposted so many times it bears little resemblance to the original thread)

GP
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:34 PM   #44
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If you dont think DPMS has put out bad rifles, look at this video. I wouldn't trust this gun with factory DPMS parts with my life...would you? And yes, that is me and my rifle, which I had to completely overhaul to get to run. The M4 upper was out of spec, which caused it to malfunction everytime, even with cleaning after every range use. Have they corrected the problem, maybe... but i'll never find out.
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/help-ftfeed-double-feed-41036/
If you still dont think the DPMS parts are to blame, I still have the upper at home, and I'll ship her to ya for $100, a steal in this climate...

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Old 01-28-2013, 09:24 PM   #45
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If you dont think DPMS has put out bad rifles, look at this video. I wouldn't trust this gun with factory DPMS parts with my life...would you? And yes, that is me and my rifle, which I had to completely overhaul to get to run. The M4 upper was out of spec, which caused it to malfunction everytime, even with cleaning after every range use. Have they corrected the problem, maybe... but i'll never find out.
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/help-ftfeed-double-feed-41036/
If you still dont think the DPMS parts are to blame, I still have the upper at home, and I'll ship her to ya for $100, a steal in this climate...
Honestly, for $100 for the upper, I'd take it. Even Ferarri puts out problem cars once in a while. Mechanical devices will from time to time fail. Sometimes you will catch things "out of spec" and that's all things mechanical. But for $100 I'd strap that biatch on the lower I have sitting around collecting dust and go to town. But then, I've been fixing mechanical breakdowns all my life, it's about second nature to me.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:53 PM   #46
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Great, I could use the $100, send me you contact stuff and payment and she's all yours.Name:  image.jpg
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:14 PM   #47
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Well, I kinda had this picture in my head that you had ripped the upper off and popped on a whole new one. I guess my lingo isn't advanced enough to realize you only meant the stripped upper. I'm not yet ready to build an upper from scratch. But when I do, if you still have it, I probably would buy it.

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Old 01-28-2013, 11:27 PM   #48
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jwhirl413, thanks for that information. Sorry you had to replace the upper but at least you did get it figured out.

Go 'Heels! (I happen to be wearing my UNC t-shirt right now...)

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Old 01-29-2013, 11:58 AM   #49
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Well, I kinda had this picture in my head that you had ripped the upper off and popped on a whole new one. I guess my lingo isn't advanced enough to realize you only meant the stripped upper. I'm not yet ready to build an upper from scratch. But when I do, if you still have it, I probably would buy it.
"Stripped"? The pic I saw had the F/A and the dust cover. That is all that comes on a A3 upper complete. You must have thought he meant a barrelled upper.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:50 PM   #50
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"Stripped"? The pic I saw had the F/A and the dust cover. That is all that comes on a A3 upper complete. You must have thought he meant a barrelled upper.
aye captain. And after poking around looking at all the stuff that is still available, the uppers like that can be had for $80 new. But again, I dun wunna build from the ground up. I just wanna strap something to this lower I have collecting dust. I was bidding on a Redxarms unit on gunbroker. I quit when it got stupid. Last I looked, 860 bucks for a 410 dollar upper
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