Noob question here, Stoner design enhancement?


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Old 06-01-2014, 01:26 AM   #1
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Default Noob question here, Stoner design enhancement?

Hey y'all. I have been reading for the last couple of years about the relative merits of AKs, ARs, and other rifles. Each has it's advantages and it's disadvantages, that's part of the fun! One thing I have not seen discussed is linearity.

The AR (to the best of my knowledge, which could be wrong) is the first shoulder fired weapon to have a completely linear discharge from the end of the barrel (or muzzle break as the case may be) all the way through to the shoulder.

Until Stoner's design, all the shouldering was below the firing line of the rifle. Having the shoulder below the firing line ought to cause or at least facilitate muzzle rise.

I'm a neophyte here, but I do understand a bit about physics. Am I making too much of this, or is that small physical advancement somewhat over looked?

I'll hang up and take your replies!



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Old 06-01-2014, 01:32 AM   #2
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Nope, not correct.

In-line stock designs were around long before the AR was developed.

In fact, the Johnson LMG was a US military small arm that had an in-line stock design that was produced during WWII.

The FG-42 had an in-line stock design.

The StG-44 had an in-line stock design.

I could go on, but you get the idea.



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Old 06-01-2014, 01:37 AM   #3
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the stock design doesnt have much to do with it. the elimination of the reciprocating piston gas system above or below the barrel has everything to do with the comparatively reduced muzzle rise. all the moving mass and gas forces are in line with the barrel and receiver.

that being said, the differences in where the gas is being cycled in terms of muzzle rise are so minor as to be a non-factor. the thing that makes an ar15 recoil inline better than say an ak47 or 308 semi is the lightweight bullet it fires. the stock reduces felt recoil only.

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Old 06-01-2014, 01:51 AM   #4
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Respectfully, the Stg 44 didn't have what I am referring to as a linear design. There is a drop in the buttstock that makes the shoulder somewhat below the firing plane of the barrel.

I've no doubt that your knowledge of firearms far exceeds mine, but the Stg 44 doesn't quite dissuade my
opinion.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/MP44_-_Tyskland_-_8x33mm_Kurz_-_Arm%C3%A9museum.jpg

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Old 06-01-2014, 01:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM View Post
the stock design doesnt have much to do with it. the elimination of the reciprocating piston gas system above or below the barrel has everything to do with the comparatively reduced muzzle rise. all the moving mass and gas forces are in line with the barrel and receiver.

that being said, the differences in where the gas is being cycled in terms of muzzle rise are so minor as to be a non-factor. the thing that makes an ar15 recoil inline better than say an ak47 or 308 semi is the lightweight bullet it fires. the stock reduces felt recoil only.
Thank you for your perspective, JonM.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
Respectfully, the Stg 44 didn't have what I am referring to as a linear design. There is a drop in the buttstock that makes the shoulder somewhat below the firing plane of the barrel.

I've no doubt that your knowledge of firearms far exceeds mine, but the Stg 44 doesn't quite dissuade my
opinion.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/MP44_-_Tyskland_-_8x33mm_Kurz_-_Arm%C3%A9museum.jpg
Is it just me, or is the top of that stock above the barrel?
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:19 AM   #7
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The StG 44 DOES have a barrel that is in line with the stock. There just happens to be some material that sits above the line.



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