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Old 02-27-2013, 02:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by 70cuda383 View Post
lifetime warranty is nice...when the company is around.


I bought a plum crazy lower because it was cheap, I already had a real AR, and it had a lifetime warranty.

I put 300-400 rounds through it without an issue. it was just as reliable and accurate as my other, name brand, aluminum AR.

but, one day, I went to look up Plum Crazy, and it would seem they simply vanished into thin air one night. nobody knows what happened to them for sure.

looks like my lifetime warranty was only a 7 month warranty. Can't get a warranty from a company that doesn't exist anymore.


I finally sold that poly lower, but the ONLY reason I sold it, was because the panic had set in, and my buddy wanted to buy an AR but couldn't find one. so I sold him a complete AR for $600, when there were none in the stores and the dealers at the shows were asking 1800 and up.
I think it was assumed that Plum Crazy changed their name when they decided to try for LE contracts and LE probably wouldn't go around toting AR's that have that name on them.

As for the NFA lowers, I have had 2. I currently have one with a Spikes upper on it, and it functions just fine. I have seen some pictures of the Polymer failing, but they are in my searches no more common than any other AR part failure. The argument here is much like the Brass vs Steel ammo debates. Much of the info seems to be "I read" or "I heard" and not very often is it "Mine failed." At the end of the day, do as you wish. $200 is a moderately high price IMO. I bought both of mine during the panic, one was $150 and the other $159. I sold one for $400 when the offer arose. I was going to use the spare for my dedicated .22lr upper, but I couldn't pass up a $200 profit. Now, I don't take mine out and beat the piss out of it either, as I would expect not many do. However, I do not care for the fire control group they come with.....quite frankly, the trigger sucks. But when I consider I got a complete lower ready to strap on an upper and go for $150, I'm a happy NFA owner. Perhaps one day I'll build an aluminum one, but that depends on if they ever return to realistic pricing.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:43 PM   #12
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You will see that there are many strong arguments for not buying these as a SHTF type weapon.
There were a lot of strong arguments why poly framed Glocks were not durable enough for SHTF use back in the 1990's.

http://youtu.be/CEAYW_2y4VU
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:20 PM   #13
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There were a lot of strong arguments why poly framed Glocks were not durable enough for SHTF use back in the 1990's

The Glock comparison doesn't work. The Glock was designed from its inception to use polymers in its frame. The AR was designed to use aluminum. The NFA lower was not redesigned to play to the strengths of polymer. What they did was to directly copy an AR lower. I have watched those videos and I am hardly impressed.

Read through this thread.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/polymer-ar-15-lower-64685/
This horse has been beaten to death and the conclusion always seems the same.

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Old 02-27-2013, 05:58 PM   #14
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The Glock comparison doesn't work. The Glock was designed from its inception to use polymers in its frame.
Maybe, but every part of the Glock design itself was borrowed or adapted from metal framed guns that came before it.


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This horse has been beaten to death and the conclusion always seems the same.
I agree, the conclusion is always always the same; theoretical and based on assumptions and presumptions. Even when the Cav Arms lowers came everyone ran around claiming that everyone would kaboom and kill us all. But that did not happen and they turned out to be very capable lowers. Until the naysayers actually go out and buy a NFA lower, test it under real world situations and then clearly demonstrate it's inferiority I will just continue to take their opinions with a grain of salt. If you are bound and determined to hate something no amount of reason or review will impress you.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:22 PM   #15
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That video is a great representation of what their lower is capable of for the length of the video. If they continue to treat that lower like that it will fail eventually. An aluminum lower will fail under that kind of abuse as well. The poly lower will fail sooner.

When it's all said and done. In the anti-gun climate which we currently find ourselves in, the question must be asked; Do you really want to buy a lower that is based on "technology' that is as yet unproven? IF an "ASSAULT WEAPONS" ban happens, do you want to have your (now irreplaceable) lower crap out because it's plastic? NOT ME! At this point I would purchase only quality. Because if they somehow pass a ban tomorrow, 20 years from now I want to be able to say "I have an AR". Not "I had an AR. But I had to sell the upper after the cheap plastic lower I bought broke and I could not afford to replace it.".

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Old 02-27-2013, 08:17 PM   #16
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I paid 150 for mine back in September 2012 so far I haven't shot it once because its waiting on parts to make it a M16A1 clone. It's not going to be a duty rifle so don't give me any crap on that one guys lol

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Old 02-27-2013, 09:47 PM   #17
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As a range gun or a plinker they would be great, as I said in my first post. Have fun! But you should be prepared to buy another rifle. These things are like crack. Once you start it will be hard to stop.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:49 AM   #18
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The Glock comparison doesn't work. The Glock was designed from its inception to use polymers in its frame. The AR was designed to use aluminum. The NFA lower was not redesigned to play to the strengths of polymer. What they did was to directly copy an AR lower. I have watched those videos and I am hardly impressed.

Read through this thread.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/polymer-ar-15-lower-64685/
This horse has been beaten to death and the conclusion always seems the same.

EDUB
I don't really want any part of this debate, however I have to add something here. The argument that something was originally built on the usage of XXX being the main component and not able to be changed in the future is one of utter stupidity. The automobile wheel was first made of wood, and this argument would say that using aluminum would make the car weigh to much and wouldn't roll. Or that Carbon Fiber as a body won't work because it will fall apart since cars were designed to be made from sheet metal. All products advance by way of newer space age materials being integrated into their production. All Glock did was take a handgun, make it out of "polymer" or "plastic" whichever you prefer to call it, and create a market segment that didn't exist in handguns prior to them. They advanced the platform of the handgun, using, you guessed it, space aged materials.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:59 AM   #19
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I don't really want any part of this debate, however I have to add something here. The argument that something was originally built on the usage of XXX being the main component and not able to be changed in the future is one of utter stupidity. The automobile wheel was first made of wood, and this argument would say that using aluminum would make the car weigh to much and wouldn't roll. Or that Carbon Fiber as a body won't work because it will fall apart since cars were designed to be made from sheet metal. All products advance by way of newer space age materials being integrated into their production. All Glock did was take a handgun, make it out of "polymer" or "plastic" whichever you prefer to call it, and create a market segment that didn't exist in handguns prior to them. They advanced the platform of the handgun, using, you guessed it, space aged materials.
I don't use the like button often, but you earned it.

Concise analogy. And can't argue the points... Plus, I don't think an aluminum lower kills em any deader.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:07 AM   #20
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I don't really want any part of this debate, however I have to add something here. The argument that something was originally built on the usage of XXX being the main component and not able to be changed in the future is one of utter stupidity. The automobile wheel was first made of wood, and this argument would say that using aluminum would make the car weigh to much and wouldn't roll. Or that Carbon Fiber as a body won't work because it will fall apart since cars were designed to be made from sheet metal. All products advance by way of newer space age materials being integrated into their production. All Glock did was take a handgun, make it out of "polymer" or "plastic" whichever you prefer to call it, and create a market segment that didn't exist in handguns prior to them. They advanced the platform of the handgun, using, you guessed it, space aged materials.
Whether or not you want in the debate, you just stepped into it with both feet.

Maybe you should think an analogy through before using it. Your car wheel theory is ill founded. Do you think that a wooden spoked wheel could stand up to the speeds and weight of todays cars? They had to be made of metal in order to stand up to the punishment that would utterly destroy a wooden wheel.

As for carbon fiber body panels, They are lighter, but not stronger that the steel body parts they replace. If they were the same weight they would be stronger. there are always trade offs when dealing with polymers. Yes there are cars that are made entirely of carbon fiber. But, like the glock, they were designed from the ground up to be made like that. The sub structure and load distribution had to be designed to play to the strengths of the material used. Think honeycomb structures. They are lighter than their steel counter parts but they are thicker and much more expensive to produce.

As I have said before when someone designs an AR lower from the ground up to EFFECTIVELY use polymers I will look at it. Until then you and anyone else are welcome to own one and I sincerely hope that you are happy with your purchasing decision.


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