[PlaysWithZombies]

Originally Posted by AgentTikki

Dots and scopes do the same thing. They help you aim.

But they differ immensely on how you use them.

Scopes are great for precision work.

Red dots are for speed. Not precision. Once you take a class or run some drills you will appreciate red dots. They are so fast its like cheating.

Agreed. I don't have much experience with red dots, but with my holo getting on target is pretty much effortless

[Retaks]

I have a M&P15 with an Eotec 512. Its a great setup. I would get the optics and spare mags somewhere besides Cabelas. I recently got some 30 round PMags for $11 each when they are $17 at Cabelas.

If you dont mind me asking where in PA are you? Im about an 2 hours from Cabelas at the PA/DE/NJ lines and wont mind letting you see my setup if your not too far.

[fetep]

With that money if I were you I would spend a bit more on the rifle and save for the optics;-). BCM, LMT, NOVESKE, DD, Colt any of those will serve you well even with just irons for awhile!

That's just my $.02 though;-)

Fetep

[AgentTikki]

Originally Posted by PlaysWithZombies

Agreed. I don't have much experience with red dots, but with my holo getting on target is pretty much effortless

Experienced shooters practice consistent check welds from the low ready position to speed up sight acqusition. Red dots don't need a consistent check weld for sight acqusition. A consistent check weld will still speed thing up but a perfect weld to line up your sights is not needed. So its like cheating. You get to skip a step by not having to line up your sights. Just find the dot, and put the dot on target, squeeze.

And for a defensive role, dot have probably the most important advantage: both eyes on target.

[MikeJK]

Originally Posted by AgentTikki

Experienced shooters practice consistent check welds from the low ready position to speed up sight acqusition. Red dots don't need a consistent check weld for sight acqusition. A consistent check weld will still speed thing up but a perfect weld to line up your sights is not needed. So its like cheating. You get to skip a step by not having to line up your sights. Just find the dot, and put the dot on target, squeeze.

And for a defensive role, dot have probably the most important advantage: both eyes on target.

And the choir stands to sing

[KHickam]

Thanks guys

I am on my way to a gun shop that carries both the DPMS Oracle and the MP 15 for about the same money - I will make the decision after a side by side comparison based on which one seems to be the best bang for the buck and how they feel.

I have decided to purchase the Vortex StrikeFire - reviews are good and it is rated very high - not an Aimpoint but 1/3 the money too and considered great value for the money - and compares well. Is there a see through mount for this scope you would recommend? I want to keep iron sights on it for back up.

I am still looking for recommendations for a vertical forearm grip - I will mount this as far forward as possible to increase steadiness when firing - if I have to go into tight spots I can just bring my weak hand back to the mag well as we were taught when I was in the USAF.

As time goes on I will add ambidextrous accessories to make the gun more user friendly for me.

Thanks for all the help

[MikeJK]

Originally Posted by KHickam

Thanks guys

I am on my way to a gun shop that carries both the DPMS Oracle and the MP 15 for about the same money - I will make the decision after a side by side comparison based on which one seems to be the best bang for the buck and how they feel.

I have decided to purchase the Vortex StrikeFire - reviews are good and it is rated very high - not an Aimpoint but 1/3 the money too and considered great value for the money - and compares well. Is there a see through mount for this scope you would recommend? I want to keep iron sights on it for back up.

I am still looking for recommendations for a vertical forearm grip - I will mount this as far forward as possible to increase steadiness when firing - if I have to go into tight spots I can just bring my weak hand back to the mag well as we were taught when I was in the USAF.

As time goes on I will add ambidextrous accessories to make the gun more user friendly for me.

Thanks for all the help

Visual inspection beyond making sure things are staked properly and the feed ramps are gtg won't get you far.

The Army taught that magwell junk too. It is a compromise to proper technique. Not trying to tell anyone what to do but there's a reason guys went away from the magwell grip years ago.

Just trying to help you get the most out of your time and money

[JonM]

the closer your hands are together the less control and stability you have in unsupported shooting.

moving the forehand back to the magwell means less control

[AgentTikki]

I would honestly hold off on buying a vert foregrip. Get your dot, practice and see if you even need it. Some people like them, some people don't, some people prefer AVGs, some people don't see the need for one. I had vert grips, and avgs, and sold them all, wasted money and time. Don't need it.

I will say tho, that I don't regret buying them, as I like to try everything out and see if it works for me...but in the interest of saving you some cashola, try out your gun first before buying stuff like that.

[BenLuby]

Originally Posted by AgentTikki

I would honestly hold off on buying a vert foregrip. Get your dot, practice and see if you even need it. Some people like them, some people don't, some people prefer AVGs, some people don't see the need for one. I had vert grips, and avgs, and sold them all, wasted money and time. Don't need it.

I will say tho, that I don't regret buying them, as I like to try everything out and see if it works for me...but in the interest of saving you some cashola, try out your gun first before buying stuff like that.

Personally, I like the angled foregrip. Works fantastic. As a caveat, however, it really depends how big your hands are and what type of foreend you're running.
With my angled, I can wrap my hands around it, and still have a thumb over grip.