[Vikingdad]

I have gotten great amusement from first talking about the different "controversial" guns, such as the "plastic" guns that were widely demonized in the 1980's when Glock started making them and many anti-gunners still tot his day think that these plastic guns are undetectable by X-ray or metal detectors. Then I take out my Glock and hand it to them (unloaded and safe of course) so they can feel it, then strip it and show them all of the metal parts etc. and ask them if they think they could get on a plane with it. I willl bring out the Blackhawk (since I don't have any other single-action revolvers) and my GP100 and maybe the S&W 686 to discuss the differences, improvements and the downsides to the different designs. Then we talk about some of the other guns, the Garand, the Mini-14 and the AR.... (ahem) MSR, before bringing them out and discussing them. What I really need to get is an authentic 1776 musket to complete the lesson.

Then I talk about the modern printing press, radio (invented around 1900) telegraphy, television, the internet. all of it dovetails in together to create a well reasoned argument that the Second Amendment does indeed include modern weapons, and not just modern firearms.

Use props to make your point when you can.

[trip286]

Originally Posted by tsully85

Libtards crack me up when they use the term assault rifle. They don't even know they're using a term popularized, or maybe even invented, by Hitler. Nein spreckenzie duestch, but the MP44, Sturmgeveir (definately not spelled right) roughly translates to assault rifle, right?.. Which was coined by good old Adolf. Maybe that's how we can get'm to stop using that rediculous term.

It'll never work, because gun control is a Nazi concept to begin with.

I have this theory...
Gun banners, and liberals particularly, are ruled more by emotion than anything (there's a particular member I like to watch, he exemplifies this beyond belief). These people are the ones with the quick knee jerk reaction. They're quick to say "this is how it needs to be" even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Here's one effect of their reasoning- many agree that the nazis had a flawed agenda. I won't go into the pros and cons of their reasoning and methods, mostly because I can't think of any pros. They were generally considered evil by many, when in actuality, they were simply a political party.

Now, because they're considered evil by so many (let me say, by me too, even though it sounds as though I'm on the brink of defending them), when you equate their reasoning to that of the nazis, they automatically get defensive. These days, during the current president's reign, this defensiveness all too often takes the form of accusing someone of racism.

Pointing out that their reasoning is Nazi in nature will only have the effect of pissing them off. People completely ruled by emotion aren't logical to begin with, and just downright intolerable when pissed. They already don't listen to reason, so at that point, they're like a little kid with their fingers in their ears saying "LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"
And when they get like that I have to make a choice. Walk away, or go to jail. I can't tolerate such asshattery.

[KG7IL]

I just stopped by the Smith and Wesson website, lo & behold, they also are using the Modern Sporting Rifle (MSR) moniker.

While I understand trips viewpoint, our Concervative senators and representatives will be fighting this battle for us

MSR allows us to understand the difference that they will make between "assault rifles" and the MSR.

[tsully85]

In a way I feel like we've already lost the ideological battle because we're playing their stupid words game. How about calling it what it simply is, a rifle rifle. The libs can call'm whatever they want, evil death machine for all I care, let them continue to make fools out of themselves. We should be focused on spreading the truth about AR's, AK's, whatever. The next Republican nominee for the White House should not be so ignorant as to allow a questionee at a debate get away with saying "are you going to do anything about getting rid of military assault rifles that have no civilian use like hunting" (paraphrasing, but that's pretty close) Instead of simply replying, well they're not really machine guns, so I don't support renewing the AWB, he/she should be able to articulate the facts. Like the fact that AR's are and can be used for many different civilian purposes, such as hunting, rifle matches, other competitive shooting sports like 3 gun, home/self defense... That's why they're the most popular kind of rifle in the country, because they're so versitile, and in fact, very few of those rifles ever get used in crimes. We need to make it clear that the Second Ammendment is a key, important, crucial issue to our representatives, and we need to be overt and loud about it so they pay attention. Throwing the NRA a few bucks isn't enough. 2A and AWB's need to be "social issues", just like all the other former non-issues somehow became issues that morons vote over. Like gay marriage, abortion, illegal immigration, the war on women lol... think about it, now maybe what I'm suggesting doesn't seem quite as stupid. We need representation in the government and voices in the media that are as outraged over talk of a new AWB as the libs would be if Planned Parenthood got shut down tomorrow. The problem is ignorance. Even if somebody in the government or media wants to publicly oppose a new AWB they're too scared to, because they don't really know a damn thing about it. That's gotta change. Our congressmen need to be as well versed about the 2A issue and the AWB issue as they currently are at explaining why they don't really hate hispanics and women...... Idiots.... Don't play their word games, there's no winning it when the media's rooting for the other side, just spread the truth and debunk the lies.

[Cattledog]

Originally Posted by tsully85

In a way I feel like we've already lost the ideological battle because we're playing their stupid words game. How about calling it what it simply is, a rifle rifle. The libs can call'm whatever they want, evil death machine for all I care, let them continue to make fools out of themselves. We should be focused on spreading the truth about AR's, AK's, whatever. The next Republican nominee for the White House should not be so ignorant as to allow a questionee at a debate get away with saying "are you going to do anything about getting rid of military assault rifles that have no civilian use like hunting" (paraphrasing, but that's pretty close) Instead of simply replying, well they're not really machine guns, so I don't support renewing the AWB, he/she should be able to articulate the facts. Like the fact that AR's are and can be used for many different civilian purposes, such as hunting, rifle matches, other competitive shooting sports like 3 gun, home/self defense... That's why they're the most popular kind of rifle in the country, because they're so versitile, and in fact, very few of those rifles ever get used in crimes. We need to make it clear that the Second Ammendment is a key, important, crucial issue to our representatives, and we need to be overt and loud about it so they pay attention. Throwing the NRA a few bucks isn't enough. 2A and AWB's need to be "social issues", just like all the other former non-issues somehow became issues that morons vote over. Like gay marriage, abortion, illegal immigration, the war on women lol... think about it, now maybe what I'm suggesting doesn't seem quite as stupid. We need representation in the government and voices in the media that are as outraged over talk of a new AWB as the libs would be if Planned Parenthood got shut down tomorrow. The problem is ignorance. Even if somebody in the government or media wants to publicly oppose a new AWB they're too scared to, because they don't really know a damn thing about it. That's gotta change. Our congressmen need to be as well versed about the 2A issue and the AWB issue as they currently are at explaining why they don't really hate hispanics and women...... Idiots.... Don't play their word games, there's no winning it when the media's rooting for the other side, just spread the truth and debunk the lies.

Yes that is the way it SHOULD be. I totally agree and you're right. The problem is context. What your saying is that the politcos need to see things as they are in reality and not just respond to an intuition.

Do you do that? Does anyone? Maybe, if we stop for a few minutes and think about it. Most people don't. The truth is, people respond faster to anything thats easily comprehended. If it requires a deeper understanding, they'll usually leave it and go with whatever their gut tells them... or what someone else tells them.

Of all the millions of people that have voted against "assault weapons" I guarantee you, more than half had no idea what any of it was about. The words just sound bad together so they said "no". That's why the anti-gun lobby uses them. They count on busy people too distracted by other issues to get an education....and it works.

The "MSR" idea is a good one and the manufactures have been on board for awhile. There isnt such a thing as "sniper rifles" most of the time, they're "varmint rifles" and most "tactical" rifles are bolt action. That's no mistake.

The recognition of context does need to be addressed, but that's the long game. In the short term, re-defining firearms is a better solution for those that either aren't paying attention, don't care or just following the party line.