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Old 11-03-2011, 08:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by FCross7 View Post
Can YOU shoot 2MOA at 100 yards? I'm not talking off of a bench. I'm talking offhand, standing unsupported.

I'd bet not, no matter what rifle you were using.

If I shot 10 rounds into 1 target each out of a Saiga 223, a Mini 14 and an AR-15, offhand, I'd bet you couldn't tell which target was from which rifle. All three of the rifles mentioned will shoot a group tighter than I personally can shoot, and I bet they shoot tighter than you can too.

If benchrest target shooting is your thing, great, but if that's the case, I don't see why you're shooting semi-autos in the first place. If accuracy is the most important characteristic for you in a rifle, then shoot a bolt gun.

Mini 14s aren't target guns (regardless of the fact that they have a target model, that's Ruger just trying to get every corner of the market share they can), but they are still great little rifles, for what they were designed for. I had one, a Mini 14 Tactical, and while I prefer my AR, that doesn't mean that ARs are any "better" than Mini 14s. AR may do some things better, but the same can be said for Minis.

-Fred
OK there is also the fact that the more inaccurate the rifle is, the more compounded the shooter error is. Get it, so yeah u have a point, but the better shooting rifle would still shine every time.
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:31 PM   #12
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I don't have any hate for a mini, just the price point doesn't match the product giving the competition.

Some one brought up a saiga, they are just as reliable if not more so, and by far ezer to clean. That said I would bet the accuracy is about the same from mini to saiga.

saiga .223 $299
mini 14 $599
DPMS milspec flat top $699

nothing puts the mini above the saiga or even close to the AR in a simple price vs.. what you get type thing.

IM not sure how to explain what IM trying to say here. And don't give me that crap about being made in the us cause that's not always a good thing. I just can't understand how the price got where it is. Its a good looking rifle for the most part, but I like the look of the saiga and feel that the saiga would be a better rifle for the money.

Like some one here posted, they got a mini for $100. That sounds awesome. I would be comfortable spending $400

they are nice reliable decent rifles, but there not $600 to $800 rifles by any means

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Old 11-03-2011, 08:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Nathantc
I don't have any hate for a mini, just the price point doesn't match the product giving the competition.

Some one brought up a saiga, they are just as reliable if not more so, and by far ezer to clean. That said I would bet the accuracy is about the same from mini to saiga.

saiga .223 $299
mini 14 $599
DPMS milspec flat top $699

nothing puts the mini above the saiga or even close to the AR in a simple price vs.. what you get type thing.

IM not sure how to explain what IM trying to say here. And don't give me that crap about being made in the us cause that's not always a good thing. I just can't understand how the price got where it is. Its a good looking rifle for the most part, but I like the look of the saiga and feel that the saiga would be a better rifle for the money.

Like some one here posted, they got a mini for $100. That sounds awesome. I would be comfortable spending $400

they are nice reliable decent rifles, but there not $600 to $800 rifles by any means
Yeah I agree they aren't worth the price, but I'm one of those who thinks inflation has gotten way outta hand and EVERYTHING IS OVER PRICED!!! Including ARs and everything else. Some prices are just plain rediculous.
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:41 PM   #14
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People who say the Ruger Mini 14 is "overpriced" don't know much about machining, or what it takes to build a gun. The Ruger Mini 14 is constructed of both carbon and stainless steel. Much of the AR-15, (both upper and lower receiver), is made from Aluminum. Aluminum is far cheaper to machine. The Mini 14 is basically a scaled down Garand or M1-A. Look at what they sell for.

No, the Mini isn't as accurate, nor was it designed to be. It is a very compact, reliable platform. I have been a Machinist for over 40 years and honestly I don't see how they can make it as reasonably as they do. The bolt assembly of the Mini is more difficult to machine, and it is a more complicated weapons platform. In spite of that they will match or exceed the AR-15 in reliability. For the record I have 3 Ruger Mini 14's and several more AR-15's. I'm not a whore to either platform.

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Old 11-03-2011, 08:58 PM   #15
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It wasn't that long ago I would see surplus m1s for about $100, now people are just stupid and are willing to pay $1000 for a old beat up and very used rifle.

Also on the mini I can assure you there build cost per unit is maybe around a tenth the cost of the sale price.

For instance, here is a browning bar that just sold for only $400
Belgian Browning BAR Semi-Automatic Rifle with Scope.

Here is a used mini 14 for $480
Ruger Mini-14 181 Series Blue .223 Rem - VERY GOOD - Hyatt Gun Store

With out a doubt the browning is a nicer rifle, just saying that the mini just doesn't belong in the ball park with rifles of similar price.

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Old 11-03-2011, 09:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Nathantc View Post
It wasn't that long ago I would see surplus m1s for about $100, now people are just stupid and are willing to pay $1000 for a old beat up and very used rifle.

Also on the mini I can assure you there build cost per unit is maybe around a tenth the cost of the sale price.

For instance, here is a browning bar that just sold for only $400
Belgian Browning BAR Semi-Automatic Rifle with Scope.

Here is a used mini 14 for $480
Ruger Mini-14 181 Series Blue .223 Rem - VERY GOOD - Hyatt Gun Store

With out a doubt the browning is a nicer rifle, just saying that the mini just doesn't belong in the ball park with rifles of similar price.
Well, based on just common economics, being a supply and demand type thing where the price will be adjusted to what the market will bear, SOMEONE must think this is fairly priced rifle or they wouldn't keep buying it at that price and Ruger would be forced to discontinue production due to costs or adjust retail pricing to match the perceived value point of the rifle as indicated by people's willingess to purchase it. So while the rifle may not be worth it's cost to you, others obviously disagree.....
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:22 PM   #17
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Well, based on just common economics, being a supply and demand type thing where the price will be adjusted to what the market will bear, SOMEONE must think this is fairly priced rifle or they wouldn't keep buying it at that price and Ruger would be forced to discontinue or adjust pricing to the precieved value point the rifle is accpeted at.
Exactly. You cannot quote the used market. There are too many variables in terms of condition, etc. If you want to compare, do it with new models. The cheapest Springfield M1-A is going to run you around $1,350.00+, and Springfield can't keep them in stock at that price.

You can buy AR-15's by the boxcar load for $800.00+. Ruger Mini 14's, depending on configuration run in the mid 6 to mid 7 hundred range. Ruger cuts down on a lot of machining with their investment casting process, but it still takes much more to machine steel than Aluminum. The bolt carrier group on an AR-15 is also much easier and faster to machine. No matter how you approach it, the Ruger Mini 14 is an excellent buy. They haven't seen almost 40 years of continuous production, with brisk sales because they are bad.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:09 PM   #18
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Also on the mini I can assure you there build cost per unit is maybe around a tenth the cost of the sale price.
That would mean a 90% profit margin. That is impossible. No one in the firearms business operates within that large of a profit margin, not even Glock.

Top Gun - Forbes.com

" A gun that retails for $500 can be manufactured for $75, and the company has a pretax margin nearing 60%, estimates John Farnam of Defense Training International, a LaPorte, Colorado, small arms instructor."
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:11 PM   #19
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Exactly. You cannot quote the used market. There are too many variables in terms of condition, etc. If you want to compare, do it with new models. The cheapest Springfield M1-A is going to run you around $1,350.00+, and Springfield can't keep them in stock at that price.

You can buy AR-15's by the boxcar load for $800.00+. Ruger Mini 14's, depending on configuration run in the mid 6 to mid 7 hundred range. Ruger cuts down on a lot of machining with their investment casting process, but it still takes much more to machine steel than Aluminum. The bolt carrier group on an AR-15 is also much easier and faster to machine. No matter how you approach it, the Ruger Mini 14 is an excellent buy. They haven't seen almost 40 years of continuous production, with brisk sales because they are bad.
Was you stainless mini more than the blued? Love them tactical minis. Since I seen the stainless, I think that's the one I want. More durable right?
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:56 PM   #20
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Was you stainless mini more than the blued? Love them tactical minis. Since I seen the stainless, I think that's the one I want. More durable right?
More durable from a rust and corrosion standpoint, and just a few bucks more. They only thing with Stainless is to be sure to keep moving parts like bolt lugs well lubricated. Stainless Steel is very "gummy", and because of that physical trait it tends to gall easier than carbon steel does.
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