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Old 01-28-2009, 01:19 PM   #11
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For an LE Patrol Rifle. What you have is fine. It will handle mid range engagements easily. If you work a rural environment, you may consider a second rifle for longer range work. I carry a 16" Colt w/C-More scout scope for urban/shorter range work and a 20" HBAR w/3-9 scope for longer range work. My County is pretty big (about 700 sq. miles) w/a lot of urban/suburban sprawl, Flat land prairie in the East and rocky rolling hills in the West. Depending on the mission, I may need a different rifle.

For accurate work with either type rifle I use the Winchester 64 gr Power Point. The carbine will shoot 3/4" groups and the HBAR will shoot 1/2" groups with that round. I am not a believer in BTHP's in .224 diameter. They may well be accurate but they have unpredictable terminal performance. The 64gr PP has performed well and consistantly.

Typical M-193 or M-855 ammo is not a reasonable choice for duty carry in a Patrol Rifle. Consider more premium ammo and be prepared to try several brands/weights to find what gives you the accuracy you need and the terminal performance you should expect.

Our entry guns (M-16 F/A 11.5" Commando models) run 55 gr HP's. Penetration is only about 3-4" in flesh. That is entirely inadequate for a Patrol Rifle, IMHO, but fine for an entry gun.

Unless you do not have a dedicated unit to deal with precision situations, I would not bother with "sniper accuracy". If you are going to try a brain stem shot at 200 yards, you need to be behind a dedicated .308 precision rifle and have some significant training like the FBI sniper school.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:41 PM   #12
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:28 PM   #13
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Well i like the set up i have now for my job, i do not parol, but need a carbine for search warrants(my m-4 eotech) i want a completly seperate rifle for hunting coyotes and targets on the weekend. Ive been doing alot of reading the past few days and i have decided to build a .223 for 100/350-400 yards so lets hear some suggestions for 20 inch barrels.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:49 PM   #14
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20" Bull Barrel with a 1:9 twist to handle bullets from 45 to 70 grains and a Free Floated Fore End is my vote.

As to whom you should buy from - Good luck right now. Any quality barrel makers out there are backlogged BIG TIME.

Krieger makes the best AR barrels on the market, for my money, but they are about 8 months out on anyone not ordering about 150 of them at a time. We tried to order 30 in a bulk for some AR kits we wanted to put together and were told it would be late summer, early fall before we could expect them.

Shilen and Pac-Nor are some choices, but they are a little lower on my list personally. Doesn't mean they won't work well for you.

I would check out some of the on line sights and see if anyone is selling a barrel you can pick up without having to get the whole gun. The_Republican had, I believe, a 20" barrel that had like 100 rounds through it and he was selling for a good price, I don't know if it's still for sale or not.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head this morning...

Feel free to PM if you have any questions or need some help with the build.

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Old 01-28-2009, 04:10 PM   #15
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i was looking online last night and i found a couple i liked from white oak armament for a decent price, and they will attach their barrell to an upper reciever that you send them. I thought this seemed like a decent deal, but i did not know what anyone thought about white oak.
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:21 PM   #16
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i actually made a mistake, it is kreiger not white oak that will fit their barrell to your receiver. sorry
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:28 PM   #17
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I don't personally know of, or know anyone, who has dealt with White Oak. In looking at their webpage, a couple of questions come to mind that you might want to ask before just up and sending them your parts & cash.

1) What is their backlog?

2) Do they have the parts in hand, or is there a wait list?

3) What type of rifling was done ( cut rifled / buttoned / broach? ) as that will make a difference in the quality of the barrel.

I have sent them an e-mail with some questions and invited them to stop by and post some of their goods. Let's see what they have to say...

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Old 01-28-2009, 04:49 PM   #18
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Okay, so I just heard back from John with White Oak - took him about ten minutes to reply actually and he seems like a good guy.

They are 8-14 weeks out on uppers & barrels. That is about what I would expect right now with the market being so customer demanding in lew of the new administration.

Their standard barrel is a button rifled barrel. This is the easiest and cheapest way to rifle a barrel. The accuracy is decent, but by no means tack driving.

They also offer Kreiger ( Warrior ) barrels, which I really like. If they are a prefered dealer, they might be getting a break on pricing, which will give you a price of about what you could order it from Kreiger & then you are paying for them to mount the barrel and function check it.

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Old 01-28-2009, 06:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Sauce NARC View Post
Well i like the set up i have now for my job, i do not parol, but need a carbine for search warrants(my m-4 eotech) i want a completly seperate rifle for hunting coyotes and targets on the weekend. Ive been doing alot of reading the past few days and i have decided to build a .223 for 100/350-400 yards so lets hear some suggestions for 20 inch barrels.
The standard engagement range for our GI M4s with open sights was 300m. That's how we trained on the ranges, as those are considered typical combat engagement ranges.

If the M4 belongs to you and not the department, you should be able to shoot out to 400 yards without a problem. Like Robo suggested though, you might want to consider upgrading the optics to a scout style scope. Maybe you'd consider using QD mounts on both scopes, so you can quickly swap between optics for weekend and duty use.
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:12 PM   #20
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the kreiger barrels do seem like a better option in a perfect market lol just out of curosity what is the difference between button and cut rifleing and y is cut better?
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