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Old 08-05-2008, 10:09 PM   #41
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It says that it includes the carbine wrench, and maybe it works for some carbines, but it didn't work on my last collapsible project. I forget the type of stock I had on that unit though, it might have been a cheapy. I just know I thought I was covered, but I needed the actual carbine wrench to finish it off. Luckily we had one and it wasn't a big deal, but I see what you mean.

The multi tool will probably be fine for most applications. The multi tool is really well made and works great on the parts I have used it on, mostly uppers.

JD

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Old 08-05-2008, 11:56 PM   #42
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Slo - That tool appears actually better than the one I linked, and it appears more functional as well, not to mention cheaper. If it's sturdy, I would definitely recommend that one over the one I linked. It looks far better over all on the surface.

That second link is similiar to the armorer's kit that I bought, but mine came with the lower vise block, the traditional one, as well. I honestly don't remember what I paid for mine, it's been like 3 or 4 years since I bought it. But those are all quality tools and great prices.

I didn't check midwayusa, only because I have the discount at Brownell's and it's almost always cheaper for me personally to shop there. I have to remember that when I link stuff. Thank you for pointing that out for the thread.

Appreciate the help on a thread that is getting great views. We are really creating something special here. I appreciate all the help I can get in getting the word out there on these "evil black rifles"

JD

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Old 08-07-2008, 03:10 AM   #43
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whats post-ban/pre-ban mean?
and what would constitute a decent upper ass'y?
like barrel, sight, etc wise?
i plan on getting flat top and adding a detachable carry handle

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Old 08-07-2008, 05:12 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by junho806 View Post
whats post-ban/pre-ban mean?
and what would constitute a decent upper ass'y?
like barrel, sight, etc wise?
i plan on getting flat top and adding a detachable carry handle
Pre-Ban would be a unit built prior to the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, I believe. Post-Ban is one built after that date. Here's a great explanation I raided from a Google search:

"The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban banned a list of specific rifles from importation/sale, including such guns as the Mac10 and the Striker shotgun.

It also banned guns based on certain 'features'. Per the law, a gun may not have more than TWO of the following features and still be legal:

-bayonet lug
-pistol grip
-colapsible stock
-flash hider
-removable magazine
-grenade launcher


With the exception of the last one (since grenades are illegal for civilians to possess anyway), most military style sport rifles manufactured and sold at the time had more than two of these features and were to be banned (note that none of these features (with the exception of the grenade launcher ) change the basic functioning and lethality of the rifle.)

The immediate result was that after the ban, manufacturers simply removed enough features so that now they only have two of the 5 they used to come with (almost always the pistol grip and removable magazine). Pre-ban rifles were grandfathered in."

Define "decent" - That's really subjective, and one of the reasons I started this thread in the first place. Everyone has an opinion of what is a "decent", "good", "better than good" & super expensive ass kicker AR.

The myths and the stories swirl and everyone spends the rest of their shopping experience trying to keep up with the Jones' because poster "A" got such & such AR/Part/Build/Upper/Lower and it shoots the eyes out of gophers at 600 yards all day long.

Any upper can be made to shoot. The key is to get one that is free floated and has a quality barrel. If it has those two things, and is within your price range, from a company you have heard of, chances are that you will be getting a quality unit.

What kind of shooting are you going to be doing? Varmint shooting? You want a longer barrel ( 20" ) or so. CQB style? Collapsible stock and 16" ( to remain legal in most states ) style with a GI Barrel for longer life, because you don't need supreme accuracy. You should also figure out what kind of ammo you are going to run through the weapon. It's not going to do you any good if you get a barrel set up for NATO 55 gr. ammo and you are shooting 62 gr. hand loads all day long.

Right now I think that Yankee Hill Machine has some of the best folding battle sights on the market. They aren't cheap, about $80 front and back, but they are some quality kit that will serve you well. We put a lot of their stuff on and they never disappoint. Troy Industries also make some good folding sights, but I don't think, personally, they are as good of a deal as the YHM merely because they are twice the price, and basically the same thing.

Brett has A2 carry handles with a flip up rear sight, I put pictures in the gear for sale thread, for $25 plus flat shipping. They are take offs from Fort Lewis and from some local cop guns, so they are slightly used, but a great deal if you are in the market. Take a look and shoot me a PM if you are interested, I think we still have a few to unload.

Hope that helps.

JD
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:14 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Pre-Ban would be a unit built prior to the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, I believe. Post-Ban is one built after that date. Here's a great explanation I raided from a Google search:

"The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban banned a list of specific rifles from importation/sale, including such guns as the Mac10 and the Striker shotgun.

It also banned guns based on certain 'features'. Per the law, a gun may not have more than TWO of the following features and still be legal:

-bayonet lug
-pistol grip
-colapsible stock
-flash hider
-removable magazine
-grenade launcher


With the exception of the last one (since grenades are illegal for civilians to possess anyway), most military style sport rifles manufactured and sold at the time had more than two of these features and were to be banned (note that none of these features (with the exception of the grenade launcher ) change the basic functioning and lethality of the rifle.)

The immediate result was that after the ban, manufacturers simply removed enough features so that now they only have two of the 5 they used to come with (almost always the pistol grip and removable magazine). Pre-ban rifles were grandfathered in."

Define "decent" - That's really subjective, and one of the reasons I started this thread in the first place. Everyone has an opinion of what is a "decent", "good", "better than good" & super expensive ass kicker AR.

The myths and the stories swirl and everyone spends the rest of their shopping experience trying to keep up with the Jones' because poster "A" got such & such AR/Part/Build/Upper/Lower and it shoots the eyes out of gophers at 600 yards all day long.

Any upper can be made to shoot. The key is to get one that is free floated and has a quality barrel. If it has those two things, and is within your price range, from a company you have heard of, chances are that you will be getting a quality unit.

What kind of shooting are you going to be doing? Varmint shooting? You want a longer barrel ( 20" ) or so. CQB style? Collapsible stock and 16" ( to remain legal in most states ) style with a GI Barrel for longer life, because you don't need supreme accuracy. You should also figure out what kind of ammo you are going to run through the weapon. It's not going to do you any good if you get a barrel set up for NATO 55 gr. ammo and you are shooting 62 gr. hand loads all day long.

Right now I think that Yankee Hill Machine has some of the best folding battle sights on the market. They aren't cheap, about $80 front and back, but they are some quality kit that will serve you well. We put a lot of their stuff on and they never disappoint. Troy Industries also make some good folding sights, but I don't think, personally, they are as good of a deal as the YHM merely because they are twice the price, and basically the same thing.

Brett has A2 carry handles with a flip up rear sight, I put pictures in the gear for sale thread, for $25 plus flat shipping. They are take offs from Fort Lewis and from some local cop guns, so they are slightly used, but a great deal if you are in the market. Take a look and shoot me a PM if you are interested, I think we still have a few to unload.

Hope that helps.

JD
i was thinking more CQB
and what's the difference between 55 gr. and 62 gr.?
performance and price wise? and we still talking about 5.56 right?
and does quality barrel include chrome lined?
and i'll definitely keep in mind about those carry handles
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:33 AM   #46
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For CQB style, you pretty much need to adhere to the 16" barrel rule set in place by the Feds. Check your local laws, any gun shop or gun smith, can tell you for sure. There isn't much call for a 20" room to room gun.

Here in Washington it's 16". You can buy a shorter barrel, but you need to add the longer muzzle break to make the overall length equal to, or greater than, 16 inches. In my mind, since the muzzle break has to be staked, braised, or otherwise adhered to the barrel permanently, without the ability to screw it on and off at will, there isn't much point in getting a 10.5" barrel and adding a 5.5" muzzle break to it. Your bullets are stil only getting rifling for 10.5 inches - but you have to swing 16" into firing position. *shrug* That is a personal preference thing.

I would recommend the .223 Wylde chamber, then you can shoot both the 5.56 & the civilian .223 in the same gun. No sense limiting your options unless you have a source for super cheap 5.56 ammo.

55 grain is one of the most common AR rounds. It's very plentiful and isn't priced too terribly bad. I get my ammo from Surplus Ammo dot com. They are great guys, are at every gun show, and always have good prices. On the home page of their website, at the time I am writing this, they have Military 55 grain ( XM-193 ) 500 rounds for $200. That's a pretty fair price right now.

62 grain is a bit heavier, so it has more knock down potential, but it's also a little more expensive and not as plentiful. By contrast, the same website has SS109 ( Military 62 grain ) for $285.00 for 500 rounds. So it's a little more expensive.

GI Standard Chrome Lined barrels aren't great for accuracy, but for CQB, where accuracy is across the room, they are perfectly fine. The chrome lining makes them capable of handling thousands of rounds, so you don't need to worry about "shooting out" your barrel. No custom made barrels, built for accuracy like Varminters need, offer chrome lined models for a reason.

I have a 17" chrome lined GI model that you can see in my gallery. It's not built for sub moa accuracy, it's built to be able to handle a lot of rounds and not have to worry about if I need to shoot it all day - like at the roving Zombie hordes.

JD

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Old 08-07-2008, 03:25 PM   #47
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where could i find .223 Wylde chamber upper parts?
most websites don't say anything about caliber

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Old 08-07-2008, 04:49 PM   #48
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Junho,

Not sure what you are looking for there. Decide on what kind of upper receiver you want first, whether that be a flat top, A2 or A1, etc. Price wise, you'll be looking at around $100 for an upper with the forward assist and ejection port cover installed.

For the Wylde chamber, you'll be looking at barrels that are cut with that chamber. For instance:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id= 274

There are others as well. You might check with Pac-Nor, Noveske, White Oak, Douglas, Krieger, etc.

Hope this helps.
Slo

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Old 08-08-2008, 07:00 PM   #49
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Is the extra $30 worth it?

http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Upper_p/ur1024.htm

http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Upper_p/ur1022.htm

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Old 08-08-2008, 07:18 PM   #50
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I'm sure either would be good. I've built on DPMS uppers with no issues. The other is probably a CMT, again good. Here's another option:

http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/miscparts.html

Free shipping, too.

Seriously, any of these would be good. The M4 feedramps are nice, but may necessitate you getting a barrel with M4 ramps, too.

Slo
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