Let's End The AR BS! - Page 19
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:49 AM   #181
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Nothing wrong with Stag,or DPMS. But you might want to check out Model 1 Sales,if you just buy a stripped lower from someone,you can get a complete upper kit from them quite a bit cheaper,and you can spec it out with whatever you want. I personally like a flat top upper,because you then have the option of using it with open sights or with optics and with all the quick release gismos that are on the market they come in handy. And they also give you different barrel twist options on some of their kits. I like the 1in8 twist,it will let you shoot alot of different weights of bullets.
I have a RRA 20" Varmiter,and another one that I assembled with a DPMS lower and a kit from Model 1 Sales. The RRA rifle will just barely out shoot the other at 100yrds or less,but then it also has a 20"bull barrel,where the Model 1 is just a heavy 16" barrel. And it only cost around $700 to build it compared to $1000 for the RRA. But I would put a good trigger in anyone I have and the RRA 2 stage match trigger is hard to beat for $90 or a complete RRA lower parts kit with the trigger for $140.

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Old 12-04-2008, 08:45 AM   #182
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I was always advised on ARFCOM and other forums to stay away from Model 1 Sales. Apparently, there are quite a few people who feel like they got cheated by the company. I'll keep them in mind though as a possible vendor to go with, but Del-Ton Inc. has pretty good deals as well.

For example, let's say I go with the M4 Kit w/o the DPMS LPK, here is what I'd pay minus the shipping costs, transfer fees, and the purchase of accessories for my rifle:

DTI M4 Kit = $525
DTI Lower = $105
Stag LPK = $70
Total = $700

or the 20'' rifle kit w/o DPMS LPK

DTI Rifle Kit = $480
DTI Lower = $105
Stag LPK = $70
Total = $655

Those are some pretty darn good deals don't you think? With the DPMS LPK the prices would be $660 and $615 respectfully. That's not too shabby for just the basic parts needed. I do have a question though regarding Model 1 Sales. Do you think I could get a matching or better deal like the one I am getting from Del-Ton?

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Old 12-04-2008, 05:51 PM   #183
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There is a photo of mine on the last page(5) of The Most Common Upgrades for an AR thread by Junho. The top gun is a RRA complete gun,and the bottom one is the DPMS lower-Model 1 Sales upper kit. Now I'm not trying to sell you on them, but I'm happy with what I have bought from them. I usually by stuff from them because they are a local company and I buy it in person and can see/touch/feel what I'm getting. All I'm saying is check them out and compare prices,you might save some money.

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Old 12-04-2008, 08:50 PM   #184
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Okay here we go:

1) The range that I use is an outdoor range on conservation ground. There are only four ranges there to use: 25 yard, 75 yard, 100 yard, and clay pigeon. Therefore, I need something that is effective for precision target shooting on the three distance ranges with both iron sights and magnification equipment. Perhaps if I find a range with a greater distance I would use the rifle for that as well. I also want the rifle to have the ability to take some abuse when it comes to the off chance of spending the day wasting a large amount of ammunition just for fun.

2) I prefer shotguns when it comes to defending my home, and I am currently trying to get my hands on a Mossberg 500 to fill that role. However, I wouldn't mind having the AR as an option to fall back on, and use to deal with an intruder effectively.

3) Primarily MOA and maybe Sub-MOA, but mainly just MOA.
Okay, you have been the victim of too much information - which is understandable concering the shear volumes of it on the WWW concering this one lone "mysterious" rifle.

Look, 100 yards, for a .223/5.56 AR-15 variant is an "easy shot". This is NOT a stretch of the platforms abilities by any stretch of anyones imagination.

Hell, I think the Marines shoot out to 600 with open sights with their M-16s, and that's the same platform underneath.

You don't need a 20" bull barrel on a weapon like this that you want to shoot "out to 100 yards", unless you want to shoot dimes at 100 yards and do it all day. You definitely don't want a 20" barrel on a home defense gun.

Here are the three most important pieces that you need to consider on this platform:

Ready?? - This is where the magic happens.

1) Your Trigger. A good trigger job, or a good drop in trigger, will tighten up your groups like you wouldn't believe.

2) Your Barrel. You need the right twist rate for the ammo YOU plan on shooting. You don't need a $400 name brand barrel to shoot good groups. You do need a decent barrel with a twist rate to match the type of ammo you are going to buy. Period.

3) Free Floating the Front Handguard. Those ones you listed are bottom of the barrel crap. You want a Free Floated front barrel. Without it, any pressure from your sling, or even resting it on sandbags at a funny angle, adds stress to the barrel directly. This affects accuracy. Free Floating the front hand guard allows the barrel to remain "outside influence" free. Thus, your barrel should be in the same spot each and every time you pull the trigger....

That's it. Get a weapon that fits that criteria, shoot the correct weight ammo, and MOA should be possible if you do your part. Get into it a little bit, spend some time behind the stick, tune up a load that your weapon likes, find a good day to go to the range and you might even pull off sub MOA without having to spend any vast sum on expensive brand name parts..

JD
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:38 PM   #185
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Okay, so the 16'' is good to go huh?

Alright, I got a couple of more questions for you then.

Would a 1X7 do well firing 55gr. ammunition? I also have an inquiry on the free floating issue. Do I need just the tube, or all of it replaced? I do not know much when it comes to that subject.

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Old 12-04-2008, 10:38 PM   #186
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Okay, so the 16'' is good to go huh?

Alright, I got a couple of more questions for you then.

Would a 1X7 do well firing 55gr. ammunition? I also have an inquiry on the free floating issue. Do I need just the tube, or all of it replaced? I do not know much when it comes to that subject.
There is nothing wrong with a 16" barrel for what you want to do. Would a longer barrel me more accurate? Yes. But, for what you want to do, a 16" barrel will be sufficient.

The twist rate comes up with the ammo that YOU want to shoot. Is 55 gr. Military Ball Ammo your planned ammo? Is 55 gr. varmint style loads your plan? Varmint loads are softer and could overspin.

General school of thought:

1:7 Twist Barrels will handle 55 to 90 grain ammo. 1:7 Twist Barrels could overspin a softer varmint style 55 Gr.

1:9 Twist Barrels will handle 45 to 70 grain ammo.

For an average bullet weight of 55 to 62 grain, the most common, I would recommend the 1:9 as it will yield SLIGHTLY better accuracy.

Is the average shooter going to see the difference? Probably not. Would a free floated barrel and a good trigger job overcome these sorts of little issues? Yes.

JD
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:53 PM   #187
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I was thinking about both types of ammunition actually. I was planning on using Remington UMC for the range and military grade 5.56 for home defense. Any other pointers I should know? BTW how likely could a 1X7 overspin a 55gr? Also is the DPMS free float tubes any good?

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Old 12-04-2008, 11:14 PM   #188
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It's not REAL common, unless the 55 gr. is a soft core varmint type and the temp is up.

Go with the 1:9 - it will shoot both types well. You just can't throw the real heavy 80 gr. well - it won't spin them fast enough to stabilize them.

The 62 gr. hits hard, with plenty of penetration, so it's a real good round.

1:9 will do what you want it to do.

JD

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Old 12-04-2008, 11:51 PM   #189
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1X9 huh? I'll keep that in mind.

I'm assuming also you mean 1X9 chrome lined correct?

BTW with the 1X7, what is the best well rounded HD round to use if I would hypothetically buy it instead?

Also, you didn't answer my last question. Is DPMS vented FF any good?

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Old 12-09-2008, 05:28 AM   #190
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Well, I finally made up my mind on what route to go with on purchasing an AR-15, and what I want to do for parts. It will probably be a little while before I get it, but when I do I'll be sure to show it off on here for you guys to comment on the choices I made. So make sure to save me a seat in the EBR Club in the coming months!

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