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Old 02-28-2012, 02:14 PM   #91
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I have to agree with cfrag on this , I like running Tula its been good ammo and cheap , same deal with the 62 gr HP Wolf ammo I have been using ,if I can shoot 1" MOA with it .I cant see how its an inferior or a inaccurate product . I just look at it like this, my AR will never be a percision gun like my savages I own , however its a great gun , very accurate and a very affordable AR, it eats anything I run thru it without any problems , if it is hard on an extractor I can replace it for about $15 , saving $100 per 1000 rds more than takes care of the extractor and spring , hell for that matter one 1000 rd case buys a new bolt and firing pin , I have to believe that you could shoot 20,000 rds of steel beffore you might ever need either so figure out the difference spent on those numbers . match grade ammo is just that and I would never use it for plinking,
Anyway what was this original discussion about ?

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Old 02-28-2012, 02:50 PM   #92
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What is the cheapest Wolf goes for? I'm talking a 1,000 round case delivered?

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Old 02-28-2012, 03:08 PM   #93
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What is the cheapest Wolf goes for? I'm talking a 1,000 round case delivered?
$223.90 @ 1000 shipped to my door and these are 55 gr HPs
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:15 PM   #94
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You're looking at a savings of $100 to $150 per K between 55 grain Wolf and Fed xm193. Over a year that's roughly $600 to $750 savings for me. That's significant.

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Old 02-28-2012, 03:42 PM   #95
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Don't any of you guys reload?

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Old 02-28-2012, 04:29 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billt
Don't any of you guys reload?
I can't reload for any cheaper than I can buy. I only reload for long-range and coyote rounds. I just got 2000 rds of tula 55gr for $400 @ cheaperthandirt.com
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:36 PM   #97
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Don't any of you guys reload?
Bill , I would love to , however have no experience or time to be quite honest with you " busy family with lots of kids sporting events" . I do however save all my brass from everything when ever I do shoot it, for that " just in case" but Im not sure I could reload for them for $0.22 including my time and equipment needed . I would like to make some precision ammo some day and figure out what shoots best in all my rifles , I have a buddy that does it and he has a note book of crazy numbers for each gun he owns and shoots .

What would it cost to reload .223 per shell if you already have equipment to do it ? just asking because I have no idea . DAMN YOU BILL now your gonna get me looking to buy reloading stuff . LOL see what you did . JK
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:36 PM   #98
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Don't any of you guys reload?
Yes, but until I get some sort of progressive press, it's just not practical. In the amount of time it takes me to load 250 rounds (average shooting session count), I could work a few extra hours and have extra money left over.

As you know, reloading bottleneck rifle ammo on a single stage press is very time consuming. By the time I clean, decap, check for length, trim, prime, charge and load, I've got like 8 hours in for 250 rounds. It's just not worth it for plinking ammo. When I'm shooting for groups, then yes, I reload because the extra accuracy is nice.

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Old 02-28-2012, 07:44 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billt
Don't any of you guys reload?
What's your time worth to you?
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:43 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by purehavoc View Post
Bill , I would love to , I do however save all my brass from everything when ever I do shoot it, for that " just in case" but Im not sure I could reload for them for $0.22 including my time and equipment needed . What would it cost to reload .223 per shell if you already have equipment to do it ? just asking because I have no idea . DAMN YOU BILL now your gonna get me looking to buy reloading stuff . LOL see what you did . JK
The main issue with reloading cost is where you obtain your components. Too many people pick up a Cabela's catalog, and using their component prices as a baseline, dismiss reloading as "not worth it". Like anything else you buy in quantity, you must shop around for the best price if you expect to save. In over 40 years of shooting and reloading, I've picked up enough empty shotgun hulls and brass off the ground to fill a 2 car garage solid. Today as more people are getting into reloading it is becoming more difficult, but there is still a lot of brass available for the picking. Especially in the cheaper, more common calibers like 9 MM and .223.

It was the same 25 years ago when .308 and .30-06 was then considered to be common and cheap at the time. I would collect boxes of the stuff because most shooters couldn't be bothered with it. I would even have guys come over and ask me if I wanted their brass, after they saw me scrounging for it. I always said yes, even if it was for a caliber I didn't reload for at the time. Sooner or later I did, and that brass was put into good use.

Many leave 9 MM and .223 on the ground at my local club because they feel it is simply too cheap to bother with. While that may or may not be true today, you can bet the cheap prices won't last much longer. I'm surprised they've lasted this long. The days of factory, brass cased, reloadable 9 MM for under $10.00 a box aren't going to be with us much longer, as the prices of the raw materials used in ammunition keep rising, (Brass, Copper, and Lead). It is one of the main reasons so many manufacturers are going to steel cased ammunition. Especially the Russian manufacturers. Brass is a premium commodity in that country. Even American companies like Hornady are now producing steel cased 7.62 X 39 MM ammo at premium prices.

If you buy in bulk you will keep your cost per round lower. Watch for sales. The Internet is a good source to shop for bulk components. It means a more expensive initial investment, but you will save a lot more, and you'll be shooting clean, accurate, brass cased, hand crafted ammo. Not filthy, inaccurate, steel cased, Russian crap. For example, I picked up 12,000 primers recently from Cabela's of all places, (they do have sales that you have to watch for), for just $19.95 a thousand. I should have bought more as there was no limit. That's a mistake I won't make again if they ever have them for that price again.



For powder WC-844 is excellent for both .223 and .308. Places like Pat's Reloading has it for just $85.00 for an 8 pound jug. If you buy several at once you amortize the Haz-Mat fee.

http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/ItemDetails.aspx?Category=Powder&SubCategory=Rifle _Powder&Name=WC844_Surplus

For bullets I purchased a case of 5,000 Lake City 55 Grain FMJ Boat Tail Bullets for $390.00. These are the same bullets Federal loads in their XM-193 Ball Ammunition.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8691&dir=278|281|1081|1141

If you break the price down on the above prices, and you already have the brass you are looking at:

Primers..........02 cents per round

Powder, (25.0 Grains per charge).........04 cents per round

Bullets.............08 cents per round

Total...........14 cents per round

If you want to calculate time it would depend on how many rounds per hour you are capable of producing on your equipment. I'm not in a race when I reload, but on my Dillon Progressive I can easily produce 400 rounds per hour once I'm up and running with full primer tubes. Even at just .14 cents a round that amounts to $56.00 of ammo per hour. No one will pay you that to chat on the Internet.

As I said, I've been doing this sort of thing since I got out of high school in 1970, 42 years ago. Over the decades it has paid off well, and continues to do so. For someone starting out in reloading it still can, you just have to shop carefully for your components. Paying too much for anything negates any savings you might experience from it down the road. Reloading components are like anything else, the cheaper they can be obtained, the "better" they are.
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