Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > AR-15 Discussion > Help Me Out

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2008, 02:53 PM   #11
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
matt g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,885
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default

The AR has a very simple action and only a few small parts. If you can put your kids toys together or change the spark plugs is your car, you can build an AR. There aren't any super critical tolerances anywhere on the rifle.

Also, as far as I can tell, the only special tool that you need is an armorer's wrench.

__________________

"'Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky? "
Roger Waters

Vote freedom, join the Libertarian Party.

matt g is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 12:34 AM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Default

JD - Thanks for answering my questions - I certainly have a lot to think about here.

At lunchtime today, I swung by a local Houston dealer that sells Rock River Arms almost exclusively. I say almost because he had about 25 Rock River rifles in various configurations, and then a couple of another brand. I think it was Pro-Fox - does that sound right? Anyway, it was explained to me that this was a gas piston rifle. And then, of course, this dealer also sold the upper and lower receivers, both stripped and complete, and all the other parts.

Anyway, after reading everyone's advice here, and talking with the dealer this afternoon, I think I know basically the configuration that I want to start with. I'm going to see if I can compile the list from memory of what I saw and discussed today and then post it here and see what you guys think. I know what the dealer was asking for the complete rifles. I haven't yet priced out the cost of getting all of the individual parts and putting it together myself.

I will say that I could certainly see the quality in the Rock River guns that I held today. I do have one question that I forgot to ask yesterday. Rock River, Stag, and Bushmaster were the three manufacturers specifically recommended here. While the Rock River and Stag receivers are made from forgings, I see that the Bushmaster receiver is made from molded carbon composite. What are you guys' thoughts on forgings v. composites?

Thanks again for your indulgence.

__________________
Jefe' is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:19 AM   #13
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
matt g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,885
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefe' View Post
JD - Thanks for answering my questions - I certainly have a lot to think about here.

At lunchtime today, I swung by a local Houston dealer that sells Rock River Arms almost exclusively. I say almost because he had about 25 Rock River rifles in various configurations, and then a couple of another brand. I think it was Pro-Fox - does that sound right? Anyway, it was explained to me that this was a gas piston rifle. And then, of course, this dealer also sold the upper and lower receivers, both stripped and complete, and all the other parts.

Anyway, after reading everyone's advice here, and talking with the dealer this afternoon, I think I know basically the configuration that I want to start with. I'm going to see if I can compile the list from memory of what I saw and discussed today and then post it here and see what you guys think. I know what the dealer was asking for the complete rifles. I haven't yet priced out the cost of getting all of the individual parts and putting it together myself.

I will say that I could certainly see the quality in the Rock River guns that I held today. I do have one question that I forgot to ask yesterday. Rock River, Stag, and Bushmaster were the three manufacturers specifically recommended here. While the Rock River and Stag receivers are made from forgings, I see that the Bushmaster receiver is made from molded carbon composite. What are you guys' thoughts on forgings v. composites?

Thanks again for your indulgence.
Bushies come in forged aluminum also. The Carbon 15 is just their latest and greatest thing. I think you should buy one and go fire off a few tens of thousands of rounds through one and let me know how she stands up to the abuse. I've been eyeing the Carbon 15s since they came out a few months ago.
__________________

"'Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky? "
Roger Waters

Vote freedom, join the Libertarian Party.

matt g is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:27 AM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3478 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Well, you are learning as you go, so there's going to be lots of questions. Luckily most of the forum members here LOVE to help, so you are in luck.

Okay, take a step outside the "names" on the receivers. Most common day AR makers buy their receivers from companies like CMMG and only a couple of others, who's names escape me at the moment. Since I am running a system scan, this is taking a lot of CPU time and I am not opening any more windows.

So, the name on the side is only for resale, unless you are buying the complete unit from the maker.

Does Rock River make a good unit? Absolutely they do. Are they over charging for it based on their name? Yes they are.

Can the same be said for most makers of the AR-15 at the moment. I believe the answer to be yes.

Basically, unless you are buying a Colt ( large pin set ) or a CNC machined unit like one from Les Baer or Dave Lauck or Mossad Ayoob, the receivers are pretty much all the same. One name or the other isn't going to make THAT much difference.

Where the difference is, is in the details. Where a double star might use the cheapest possible parts, a DPMS or Rock River might use some parts they themselves market, which can be better than standard G.I. parts.

The key thing, when shopping AR's as a complete unit, is to know WHAT you are getting for the price asked. That is where your good friends here on the forum can help you out.

JD

__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 03:57 AM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Default

Thanks again for the insights JD. Ha - sounds like Matt would like me to shake down the Bushmaster.

OK, so keeping in mind that I'm still kicking around the build vs. buy routes, and understanding that for the most part the forged items for all manufacturers come from 2 or 3 main manufacturers as you noted above, JD - here is the specs on the rifle at the dealer I visited today that seemed to me to give me a good platform to start from. The list on this is about $1200, and as it was tagged at the dealer, I think it was at $1070. I haven't totaled up individual parts to see what I think I could build it for yet. But with what I know today, I would probably try to build something real close (i.e. similarly equipped) to this if I were to build one. What do y'all think?

AR1259X Rock River Arms Entry Tactical, Standard R4 Handguard, CAR, A2 Flash Hider, Black, Standard Trigger Guard, Star Safety Selector, Standard Mag Catch, National Match Trigger

ADDED OPTIONS: Chrome Lined R-4, 1:9 Barrel, CAA Command Arms 6-Position Tactical CAR Stock (Heavy Duty Construction with hidden Picatinny Battery Compartment) , Hogue Grip, Black, YHM Front Sight Gas Block Assembly, RRA Dominator2 Mount.

__________________
Jefe' is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 07:21 AM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3478 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

In my personal opinion, $1070 is well overpriced for what you have listed out. I could build that same weapon for under $800.... $850 on the high end not including a FFL transfer charge and a little bit of your time in the garage.

What do you think Slo?

JD

__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 09:13 AM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Default

Yes even though I haven't totaled it all out item by item, I do see that I could save a couple hundred by gathering all of the parts and building from there. My main point in my last post was to see what you guys thought about the configuration as a basic platform to start with.

__________________
Jefe' is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:08 PM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,198
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefe' View Post
Thanks again for the insights JD. Ha - sounds like Matt would like me to shake down the Bushmaster.

OK, so keeping in mind that I'm still kicking around the build vs. buy routes, and understanding that for the most part the forged items for all manufacturers come from 2 or 3 main manufacturers as you noted above, JD - here is the specs on the rifle at the dealer I visited today that seemed to me to give me a good platform to start from. The list on this is about $1200, and as it was tagged at the dealer, I think it was at $1070. I haven't totaled up individual parts to see what I think I could build it for yet. But with what I know today, I would probably try to build something real close (i.e. similarly equipped) to this if I were to build one. What do y'all think?

AR1259X Rock River Arms Entry Tactical, Standard R4 Handguard, CAR, A2 Flash Hider, Black, Standard Trigger Guard, Star Safety Selector, Standard Mag Catch, National Match Trigger

ADDED OPTIONS: Chrome Lined R-4, 1:9 Barrel, CAA Command Arms 6-Position Tactical CAR Stock (Heavy Duty Construction with hidden Picatinny Battery Compartment) , Hogue Grip, Black, YHM Front Sight Gas Block Assembly, RRA Dominator2 Mount.
It's not a bad set-up. Overpriced? Yes - IMHO, but to each his own. You could put together the same thing for less if you were to buy the parts and build it. Or...just by buying complete upper and a complete lower, then switch out the parts you want to change, I think you'd still come in lower than that price. By the way, unless I am looking at the wrong model, the Hogue grip is standard with that particular model. And I'm not seeing where they offered the YHM assy as an option. That model usually comes with the A2 front sight block.

IMHO - if you were going to buy one of their's, I would probably go with the mid-length A4 model and then modify it to what you want. You should be coming in a few hundred under that price that you were looking at, which would go a long way towards modifications.

Check out these links for more info:

http://www.adcofirearms.com/rra_pricelist.cfm?auth_code=99574401

http://www.ar15sales.com/rra.htm

It pays to do some searching and shopping.

Slo
__________________
slowryde45 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:48 PM   #19
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
matt g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,885
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Well, you are learning as you go, so there's going to be lots of questions. Luckily most of the forum members here LOVE to help, so you are in luck.

Okay, take a step outside the "names" on the receivers. Most common day AR makers buy their receivers from companies like CMMG and only a couple of others, who's names escape me at the moment. Since I am running a system scan, this is taking a lot of CPU time and I am not opening any more windows.

So, the name on the side is only for resale, unless you are buying the complete unit from the maker.

Does Rock River make a good unit? Absolutely they do. Are they over charging for it based on their name? Yes they are.

Can the same be said for most makers of the AR-15 at the moment. I believe the answer to be yes.

Basically, unless you are buying a Colt ( large pin set ) or a CNC machined unit like one from Les Baer or Dave Lauck or Mossad Ayoob, the receivers are pretty much all the same. One name or the other isn't going to make THAT much difference.

Where the difference is, is in the details. Where a double star might use the cheapest possible parts, a DPMS or Rock River might use some parts they themselves market, which can be better than standard G.I. parts.

The key thing, when shopping AR's as a complete unit, is to know WHAT you are getting for the price asked. That is where your good friends here on the forum can help you out.

JD
You meant that I can buy a Mossad Ayoob NC milled AR receiver?

Nevermind, it would still be an AR...
__________________

"'Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky? "
Roger Waters

Vote freedom, join the Libertarian Party.

matt g is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 03:16 PM   #20
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3478 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt g View Post
You meant that I can buy a Mossad Ayoob NC milled AR receiver?

Nevermind, it would still be an AR...
I don't believe they actually sell just a receiver, you have to buy their extremely expensive unit, the comparison was merely that they do have a bit higher standard for the receiver, but at what a price?
__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes