Gun store blues regarding Delton or build - Page 4
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > AR-15 Discussion > Gun store blues regarding Delton or build

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2012, 12:56 AM   #31
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
TankTop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,543
Liked 978 Times on 525 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentTikki
I would like to add that you can build a better rifle at the same price point as a DPMS or Delton. You just have to be patient and look for sales, group buys, and free shipping promotions. Also buying it all from the same or just a couple sources will save you on shipping costs. Wheeling and dealing at gun shows will save you some cashola too! It will take time tho, so its not for the impatient.
I went to a gun show last weekend, they were pretty nuts. There were a couple booths that were reasonable, one had some hand loads for around .25 a round. The rest was just bonkers, bushmasters for $1300 and genuine made in china rails for $200!!! One guy had PSA rifles with custom paint jobs for $2000???????
TankTop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:04 AM   #32
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 211
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khromo View Post
I am not trying to be argumentative here, so please be courteous with a guy who is just not seeing the same picture that the rest of the forum is seeing.

I must be doing something radically wrong, and I need help understanding all of this.

I am confused about how someone can assemble a "better" basic, entry level AR than can be bought pre-assembled for the same price. I understand the advantages of building a fairly specific, mid- to higher-priced rifle from components, and how this makes sense for many reasons, including cost. I just don't see how folks can build a better stripped-down carbine for less than the cost of a comparable factory gun.

Turner's usually has a basic AR on sale for about $700, or $785 after sales tax and DOJ fees. If I were to try to build that entry-level carbine at that price, I'm thinking the best I could do (buying out-of-state to avoid sales tax and using the minimum number of vendors) would look about like this:

(I have been buying stripped uppers and lowers from JD Machine Tech because they are local to me and the quality appears equal to everybody else's receivers. The lowers cost $130, the uppers $120, and sales tax and DOJ fees swell that figure up to around $300.)

Upper and lower $300
Stock and mount kit 70
Handguard 30
Charging handle 30
LPK 50
Gas block and tube 40
One magazine 10
Barrel 150
BCG 100
Turner's sale AR $785

Those are the cheapest non-critical parts I generally see, probably no better or worse than on the off-the-rack gun, nothing premium or custom. That leaves only $150 for the barrel and $100 for the BCG. Back in the day when I had a job, we called that "Mr. Low Bid" and we said it with contempt!

How is that gun "better" than the entry level AR you can buy off the rack? What am I doing wrong? Please help me to understand.
I'm not sure I can completely answer your question but I do know that I got my lower for $100 and the upper and it is a psa and the barrel I'm about to order is $200 (its a blackhole weaponry) and it comes with a free upper. Granted the other parts I'm buying cost more than most of the prices you have listed but that might half answer the question.
jwalsh66 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:17 AM   #33
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Quentin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,813
Liked 1147 Times on 803 Posts
Likes Given: 1163

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khromo View Post
I am not trying to be argumentative here, so please be courteous with a guy who is just not seeing the same picture that the rest of the forum is seeing.

I must be doing something radically wrong, and I need help understanding all of this.

I am confused about how someone can assemble a "better" basic, entry level AR than can be bought pre-assembled for the same price. I understand the advantages of building a fairly specific, mid- to higher-priced rifle from components, and how this makes sense for many reasons, including cost. I just don't see how folks can build a better stripped-down carbine for less than the cost of a comparable factory gun.

Turner's usually has a basic AR on sale for about $700, or $785 after sales tax and DOJ fees. If I were to try to build that entry-level carbine at that price, I'm thinking the best I could do (buying out-of-state to avoid sales tax and using the minimum number of vendors) would look about like this:

(I have been buying stripped uppers and lowers from JD Machine Tech because they are local to me and the quality appears equal to everybody else's receivers. The lowers cost $130, the uppers $120, and sales tax and DOJ fees swell that figure up to around $300.)

Upper and lower $300
Stock and mount kit 70
Handguard 30
Charging handle 30
LPK 50
Gas block and tube 40
One magazine 10
Barrel 150
BCG 100
Turner's sale AR $785

Those are the cheapest non-critical parts I generally see, probably no better or worse than on the off-the-rack gun, nothing premium or custom. That leaves only $150 for the barrel and $100 for the BCG. Back in the day when I had a job, we called that "Mr. Low Bid" and we said it with contempt!

How is that gun "better" than the entry level AR you can buy off the rack? What am I doing wrong? Please help me to understand.
Why don't you get the complete specs to that Turner's AR. Then we'll see what we have to beat.
__________________
______
The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together.
________________________________________
US Army 1966-69, VFW Life Member, Retired Geek
Quentin is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:28 AM   #34
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Jpyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sewell,NJ
Posts: 4,844
Liked 781 Times on 452 Posts
Likes Given: 499

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khromo View Post
I am not trying to be argumentative here, so please be courteous with a guy who is just not seeing the same picture that the rest of the forum is seeing.

I must be doing something radically wrong, and I need help understanding all of this.

I am confused about how someone can assemble a "better" basic, entry level AR than can be bought pre-assembled for the same price. I understand the advantages of building a fairly specific, mid- to higher-priced rifle from components, and how this makes sense for many reasons, including cost. I just don't see how folks can build a better stripped-down carbine for less than the cost of a comparable factory gun.

Turner's usually has a basic AR on sale for about $700, or $785 after sales tax and DOJ fees. If I were to try to build that entry-level carbine at that price, I'm thinking the best I could do (buying out-of-state to avoid sales tax and using the minimum number of vendors) would look about like this:

(I have been buying stripped uppers and lowers from JD Machine Tech because they are local to me and the quality appears equal to everybody else's receivers. The lowers cost $130, the uppers $120, and sales tax and DOJ fees swell that figure up to around $300.)

Upper and lower $300
Stock and mount kit 70
Handguard 30
Charging handle 30
LPK 50
Gas block and tube 40
One magazine 10
Barrel 150
BCG 100
Turner's sale AR $785

Those are the cheapest non-critical parts I generally see, probably no better or worse than on the off-the-rack gun, nothing premium or custom. That leaves only $150 for the barrel and $100 for the BCG. Back in the day when I had a job, we called that "Mr. Low Bid" and we said it with contempt!

How is that gun "better" than the entry level AR you can buy off the rack? What am I doing wrong? Please help me to understand.
Khromo, I believe the point is not that it will be a less expensive build but that there will be no "throwaway" features. Invariably an off-the-shelf or retail rifle will be lacking in some of the basic features. Things like the pistol grip, stock, sights, handguards, rails, trigger group, BCG may be "builders grade" in terms of quality. With a self built rifle you get to decide on all of those features, you get to decide where to put the most money now and what to upgrade later on. Those choices are typically not available with a store bought rifle. Anyone will be hard pressed to beat the cost of a mass produced rifle given the economies of scale the mass producers have, the critical thing is that you do not have to go along with their component choices. You also get to spend some of their profit margin on your choices.
__________________
"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington
Jpyle is offline  
Quentin Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:52 AM   #35
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Quentin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,813
Liked 1147 Times on 803 Posts
Likes Given: 1163

Default

Jpyle is exactly right and that was the point Tikki and I were making as well. Why put yourself in the common position of having to replace/upgrade parts when you can choose exactly the ones you want during your intelligent AR build.

And I'd recommend looking at PSA, you can put together a milspec M4/M16 (except semiauto) or similar AR (say the very popular midlength gas length) around your price point.

Quickly throwing together some figures that should be roughly correct:

$320 PSA Midlength Upper with F marked FSB/sight/M4 handguards
$140 M16 BCG
$15 charging handle
$100 lower receiver
$50 LPK
$60 receiver extension/stock kit
$15 PMAG magazine
$25 transfer fee
$35 shipping

$760 total
__________________
______
The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together.
________________________________________
US Army 1966-69, VFW Life Member, Retired Geek
Quentin is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 02:45 AM   #36
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 211
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TankTop View Post

I went to a gun show last weekend, they were pretty nuts. There were a couple booths that were reasonable, one had some hand loads for around .25 a round. The rest was just bonkers, bushmasters for $1300 and genuine made in china rails for $200!!! One guy had PSA rifles with custom paint jobs for $2000???????
Sounds about like the show I went to in ladson sc this last weekend. The only thing I found a good deal on was a rra nm 2 stage trigger I talked the guy down to $75 because that's all I said I brought with me. Little did he know I had another $400 in my other pocket lol
jwalsh66 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 08:24 AM   #37
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 41
Liked 10 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Being a lefty doesn't help. Then the triggers have to compare to the bolt guns. Then every other detail needs an upgrade, because I can think of a reason after reading about JonM's precision rifle!

I'm finishing up my third Frankengun this week, and they're all coming in between $1,650 and $1,950. I'm not complaining, because they are exactly what I wanted, but the high end components add up!
Khromo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:57 AM   #38
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
AgentTikki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: City of Lost Angels, Kommifornia
Posts: 3,453
Liked 338 Times on 264 Posts
Likes Given: 51

Default

Gonna have to agree with ya. With economies of scale, companies like Delton and DPMS make rifles at a price point which can be hard to beat. If you are trying to make the exact same thing, probably not gonna be able match their price.

If you wanna make something cheaper, it is posible.

If you wanna make something better, well thats easy.
__________________
Assumption is the mother of all ****ups.
Know what you know, Know what you don't know. -Paul Pedzolt
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one" -Mynshul
AgentTikki is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:25 AM   #39
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
climate17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 39
Default

I've got an Lwrc spr 2500.00 and I have a DPMS ap4 (600.00) they both do the same thing in fact my DPMS is the better deal. Right off the rack. If you haven't bought an ar15 before start with an off the rack gun and build on it you'll be surprised what you learn about what you like on a gun and what you don't. For me I've learned a lot I know I don't like quad rails. Quad rails are too heavy. I like free float hand gaurds. I don't like vertical grips, not enough stability. Hand stops and thin hand gaurds are the way to fly. I like the magpul ctr stocks they are better than the more expensive options. I also like Hk 416 grips they have a better angle in my opinion. I've found out all of this by buying things for my ap4 and changing them out. If I'd bought the ap4 first and done this I would have saved myself 2500.00 bucks. You'll end up building your own gun at some point but you'll know what and when to buy the components you ACTUALLY want. Not what you think you want. That's my advice.
climate17 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 02:12 PM   #40
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Quentin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,813
Liked 1147 Times on 803 Posts
Likes Given: 1163

Default

The thing is climate, if a newbie first invested time researching instead of whipping out the credit card to buy something off the rack he probably would make better decisions and not have to fix all the corners cut by DPMS, et al. At the same price point you could have bought PSA quality.
__________________
______
The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together.
________________________________________
US Army 1966-69, VFW Life Member, Retired Geek
Quentin is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Delton Sierra 316H with Nikon M223 4-16 BDC Squawk AR-15 Discussion 1 11-22-2012 12:39 AM
Magpul ubr + delton lower = problems BlackJack AR-15 Discussion 21 05-18-2012 03:28 AM
backorder blues bax8arms The Club House 24 03-09-2012 08:43 PM
Delton 16" carbine ria 223 a3 sharkcoasttactical Sponsor Display 0 01-31-2012 01:43 AM
1st round blues huck1 .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion 15 03-01-2009 11:48 AM



Newest Threads