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Old 09-11-2013, 06:56 PM   #11
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Nice pics, Jager. Any pics without the handguard/rail so we can see the piston assy?

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Old 09-11-2013, 06:59 PM   #12
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Nice pics, Jager. Any pics without the handguard/rail so we can see the piston assy?
No, I keep forgetting. I will this weekend. That is if a remember. I have been wanted to take new pics anyways. Sorry.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:22 PM   #13
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Well thanks guys I guess I don't need this at all

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Old 09-11-2013, 10:43 PM   #14
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Ever compared the cleaning required? I'm not talking about reliability or anything else, just simply cleaning. I spent a lot of extra money for 1 main purpose. I am really lazy!

Never underestimate my laziness.

/My piston system is cleaner and I'll take that challenge any day.
ive got the scar17 and a lot of ar15's the scar is pretty much the same dirt level of a typical ar piston. i spend the same time cleaning both. almost none. yank the innards out. wipe with an oily rag re-lube and off ya go.

in my opinion getting in there with qtips pipe cleaners etc isnt really needed if you keep your firearms well lubed with motor oil under most conditions. the dirt just doesnt really build up and a rag will get it with a quick wipe.

if you use light gun oils like rem oil or frog lube or clp or the like it burns off and leaves bare metal for carbon to stick on. grease is the same issue but under extreme cold you need to use cold weather grease instead of liquid oils so if you do a lot of extreme cold shooting cleaning will be a bit harder.

every now and then ill take one apart give it a good cleaning but thats rare and its more me just wanting to dig around in the innards than the rifle actual needing it,
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:01 AM   #15
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Jon, in a perfect world, all the manufacturers take the same time and care to put together the AR that Colt, BCM, and the other companies who take pride in their workmanship do. In the real world, those AR's cost about 40 to 50 percent above the 400 to 600 dollar AR's, which are selling for about 800 to 1000 bucks since Sandy Hook sadly. . . Colt AR's of any model are going about 1200 new in my area. SP1's are about 2500. (I know you hear of someone getting a decent deal on a high end AR, but it is the exception to the rule) It was even higher until recently. The lower grade AR mfr's are slapping together the guns like I have seen some armorors do, which is why troops have so many malfunctions, and outsourcing their parts to some billy-jo-bob company which puts out the bare minimum quality product they can get a way with. So in a lot of areas, you end up paying about 1200 to 1800 dollars for a premium AR, which is why I build mine from the stripped reciever up. I spend about an hour mounting the barrel most times, because I want to perfectly center the front sight post and the barrel nut so that the gas tube (or connecting rod) doesn't touch the barrel nut, which can cause problems on either system, and the front and rear sight posts are ligned up so that mechanical zero will get the shooter on the paper if he uses good marksmanship techniques. That is the kind of craftmanship you won't see in the cheaper AR's, but you will in higher end AR's such as Colt, which almost everyone considers the standard. Some AR's, such as Daniel Defense, will rise above that standard. I haven't fired a RRA, which is what the OP said he had, but every word I have heard is that they produce quality product, which is why I recommended against putting a piston in. That, and I thought it might be outside his skill level.

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Old 09-12-2013, 01:54 PM   #16
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Jon, in a perfect world, all the manufacturers take the same time and care to put together the AR that Colt, BCM, and the other companies who take pride in their workmanship do. In the real world, those AR's cost about 40 to 50 percent above the 400 to 600 dollar AR's, which are selling for about 800 to 1000 bucks since Sandy Hook sadly. . . Colt AR's of any model are going about 1200 new in my area. SP1's are about 2500. (I know you hear of someone getting a decent deal on a high end AR, but it is the exception to the rule) It was even higher until recently. The lower grade AR mfr's are slapping together the guns like I have seen some armorors do, which is why troops have so many malfunctions, and outsourcing their parts to some billy-jo-bob company which puts out the bare minimum quality product they can get a way with. So in a lot of areas, you end up paying about 1200 to 1800 dollars for a premium AR, which is why I build mine from the stripped reciever up. I spend about an hour mounting the barrel most times, because I want to perfectly center the front sight post and the barrel nut so that the gas tube (or connecting rod) doesn't touch the barrel nut, which can cause problems on either system, and the front and rear sight posts are ligned up so that mechanical zero will get the shooter on the paper if he uses good marksmanship techniques. That is the kind of craftmanship you won't see in the cheaper AR's, but you will in higher end AR's such as Colt, which almost everyone considers the standard. Some AR's, such as Daniel Defense, will rise above that standard. I haven't fired a RRA, which is what the OP said he had, but every word I have heard is that they produce quality product, which is why I recommended against putting a piston in. That, and I thought it might be outside his skill level.
Rra make superb rifles I've got two of em. No issues at all.

I'm not a fan of buying shoddy firearms then spending that 300-400 your "saving" to get it to run right. Been there done it, doesn't make sense. I took one of those low end budget guns I bought stupidly for the wife spent more money getting it to run right did it . Fortunately for me the gun crunch came along shortly after I bought her a bcm and we sold her budget gun for the price of a scar17....

I just try and save folks the pain I went through by recommending they save a bit longer buy a quality firearm and not worry from that point forward. I mean I got super lucky and off loaded one of those 500$ wunder guns for over 4 times its msrp.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #17
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What I think started all this crap is that during the Vietnam conflict, Colt was so overwhelmed with orders for the M16's that they started subcontracting a significant amount just to fill the orders, and a lot of rifles got sent with zero QC, and that is where the trouble began. The test rifles went many thousands of rounds with no cleaning and no malfunctions. But the quality control on the guns and ammo going to theater were nonexistent. And I think that set the trend for the different brands stateside. When I was taking the Colt M16 repairers course, we were taught one of the most crucial steps that the lower cost manufacturers get lazy on is the installation of the barrel. If you get it lined up just right, it is extremely difficult to tell when the bolt carrier gas key contacts the gas tube. I cringe when I see an armoror install barrels, then gas tubes. That is why the weapon will have more malfuntions after it has been repaired.

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Old 09-12-2013, 05:42 PM   #18
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What I think started all this crap is that during the Vietnam conflict, Colt was so overwhelmed with orders for the M16's that they started subcontracting a significant amount just to fill the orders, and a lot of rifles got sent with zero QC, and that is where the trouble began. The test rifles went many thousands of rounds with no cleaning and no malfunctions. But the quality control on the guns and ammo going to theater were nonexistent. And I think that set the trend for the different brands stateside. When I was taking the Colt M16 repairers course, we were taught one of the most crucial steps that the lower cost manufacturers get lazy on is the installation of the barrel. If you get it lined up just right, it is extremely difficult to tell when the bolt carrier gas key contacts the gas tube. I cringe when I see an armoror install barrels, then gas tubes. That is why the weapon will have more malfuntions after it has been repaired.
This is true. The first m16's that rolled out weren't chrome lined on the chambers or bores and the us government was not using the powder that was supposed to be used with that type of bore. Compound that with lack of qc and very little to no thought given to supplying the troops with cleaning materials or even oil and its no wonder they had issues. Ak47 won't run like that either. Take away the chromed linings give it substandard powders and no oil no cleaning equipment and they don't work either.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:44 AM   #19
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Quentin and I kicked the piston-vs-DI subject around a bit in an earlier thread.
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/ar-15-cycling-operation-discussion-35134/
Personnaly, I go back and forth on it sometimes. At the moment I am down to 3 AR's, a 20 inch DI, and 2 16 inch piston guns. One of the piston's is for another Soldier I built for and waiting for her to come up with the money to pay me, and the other is a project build I am posting on another thread. A trick I developed to align the barrel I will share with everyone now. Even though I mostly use gas blocks instead of one peice front sight posts, down the road someone may put a sight post on the rail, so I make sure the barrel is lined as best as I can without a 1000 buck tool. My trick is to wedge two toothpicks on either side of the detente on the barrel that goes into the notch on the upper, then crimp them off before tightening the barrel nut. This isn't a calibrated method, I realize, but it gets it close enough so that you don't end up adjusting the rear sight post to one extreme or another just to get on the paper. I can usually get on the sillouehtte before I start adjusting sights on the removeable sights I use to test fire the rifle. If you are using good marksmanship practice, mechanical zero will put you in the sillouette with an AR I built.

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