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Old 02-13-2012, 08:09 PM   #41
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I'm thankful for my desire to research and ability to distinguish those who know from those that think they know. Don't forget the most important trait one could have, the willingness to listen regardless of personal beliefs.
Well said. The FTF crowd is far more civilized than some *cough* AR15.com *cough* forums
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:20 PM   #42
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I definitely have my reason for never owning a POF. I was once in the market and chose a LWRC. POF has a spotty reputation w/ those worth listening to. Most don't recommend piston guns anyway but at the time I was like many on this forum and didn't know better. I don't regret the LWRC but know I could have had better for the amount it cost. I'm thankful for my desire to research and ability to distinguish those who know from those that think they know. Don't forget the most important trait one could have, the willingness to listen regardless of personal beliefs.
I think if the makers would do a better job of putting the guns together, there wouldn't be a need for these "fixes". I had a chance to fire one of Eugene Stoner's prototype M16's at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in '06. They don't keep it "white glove" clean, and it can STILL go 10,000 rounds without even feild cleaning and no malfunctions. Before anyone came up with the term NP3 coating, Stoner was using electroless nickel plating and baked in teflon coating on the M16. The reason the troops on the ground don't get their weapons with this is it is not financially expedient. Now POF does the same thing and claims it is new and charges an arm and a leg.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:25 PM   #43
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Well said. The FTF crowd is far more civilized than some *cough* AR15.com *cough* forums
ARFcom is not the site for me. It's nothing but a cesspool of paid advertisement and they push products regardless of their quality. I'll tell you what, if you want solid no BS information M4C.net is the place to be.
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"The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together."
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:27 PM   #44
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I think if the makers would do a better job of putting the guns together, there wouldn't be a need for these "fixes". I had a chance to fire one of Eugene Stoner's prototype M16's at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in '06. They don't keep it "white glove" clean, and it can STILL go 10,000 rounds without even feild cleaning and no malfunctions. Before anyone came up with the term NP3 coating, Stoner was using electroless nickel plating and baked in teflon coating on the M16. The reason the troops on the ground don't get their weapons with this is it is not financially expedient. Now POF does the same thing and claims it is new and charges an arm and a leg.
Those coatings are not needed, Filthy 14.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:15 PM   #45
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Those coatings are not needed, Filthy 14.
I believe it. My point was that $1900.00 and up for a piston upper (not the whole gun) with the coating is bull****. A quality AR will not need the intensive maintenance that some profess they need to keep rockin', and a quality bare bones AR shouldn't cost more than $1200.00, not when you can get an Armalite for about 900-1000 bucks, and accessorize the hell out of it later. I have seen guys at knob creek range in KY throw fits because their AR ftf'd, and it was probably the maker used the parts we all try to stay away from, or half @$$ put it together. Give you an example: I see a lot of DPMS collapsable buttstocks that the threads aren't CNC'd. The end result is that the tube doesn't go quite far enough in, and after about 2-3 mags, the detente for the buffer pops out, which means the buffer doesn't stop at the detent and goes about 1/16 into the upper. Also, the detent will get caught in the fire control group, causing problems there. One of the few things Bushmaster got right was puting a lip on the buffer tube to solve this issue, regardless of whether the threads on the lower match the tube. Damn, I keep rambling.
High dollar rifles do not necessarily mean high quality rifles, and spending an hour cleaning for every round you fire is not necessary with a well built rifle with quality parts installed.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:17 PM   #46
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Those coatings are not needed, Filthy 14.
Yeah, and I beleive after all those rounds, the teflon is probably worn off anyway.
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:15 PM   #47
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Yeah, and I beleive after all those rounds, the teflon is probably worn off anyway.
I have no idea about the longevity of Teflon.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:20 PM   #48
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I instinctively distrust coatings of any kind on moving parts...less its oil

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Old 02-15-2012, 06:46 PM   #49
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I instinctively distrust coatings of any kind on moving parts...less its oil
Unless you catch it before it gets it's dye (or paint in the cheaper instances) they all will have a "coating" of some type. Teflon is in many gun lubes, some more than others. I think Colt currently bakes it into their bolt carriers. Not sure about that, just what I was told by one of their reps. It's not a bad thing. Just overrated by some companies. Helps reduce the rust if you have to store your gun in a not-so-dry environment.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:45 PM   #50
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Teflon in the gun lube is all right. lubricant is something I can control. The slow wear of a "permanent" coating is another story. I agree about the hype. Many times it suckers people into getting something they dont need.

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