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Old 02-10-2012, 03:09 AM   #21
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Is this because on full auto the spring would cause the bolt and carrier to return too quickly and potentially cause a failure to fully eject? The hydraulic buffer would slow down the cycle rate?
Thats exactly what happens in full auto fails with gas pistons. It actually happened on "sons of guns". I think some of the confusion is coming from the full auto problems and the fact that some of the piston uppers discussed are proprietary and not add on kits. The suggestion to use a hydraulic buffer to balance usually refers to one adding a retro fit gas-piston kit and/or to fix for full auto. The proprietary gas piston uppers can be using a standard buffer set up. Unless they did something weird to the spring which isnt likley. All that said, a factory gas piston upper should work on most lower sets.

Adding a hydraulic buffer to a DI system is said to increase the shot to shot accuracy by reducing the (almost non) recoil. I have heard that a heavy buffer offers similar benefits. What I have not heard of is using a heavy buffer to compensate for a gas-piston, but I don't know everything.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:15 AM   #22
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Lol it happening on sons of guns is probably not the best "source"
They could have corrected timing issues with an h2 or h3 buffer just the same, and at 50 bucks less.

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Old 02-10-2012, 03:43 AM   #23
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Lol it happening on sons of guns is probably not the best "source"
They could have corrected timing issues with an h2 or h3 buffer just the same, and at 50 bucks less.
That was anecdotal. I did my homework.
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:37 AM   #24
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That was anecdotal. I did my homework.
Sorry I failed to relay a more sarcastic tone to the first part.
Very informative though, thanks.
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog

Thats exactly what happens in full auto fails with gas pistons. It actually happened on "sons of guns". I think some of the confusion is coming from the full auto problems and the fact that some of the piston uppers discussed are proprietary and not add on kits. The suggestion to use a hydraulic buffer to balance usually refers to one adding a retro fit gas-piston kit and/or to fix for full auto. The proprietary gas piston uppers can be using a standard buffer set up. Unless they did something weird to the spring which isnt likley. All that said, a factory gas piston upper should work on most lower sets.

Adding a hydraulic buffer to a DI system is said to increase the shot to shot accuracy by reducing the (almost non) recoil. I have heard that a heavy buffer offers similar benefits. What I have not heard of is using a heavy buffer to compensate for a gas-piston, but I don't know everything.
Nothing a "normal" buffer won't do without the drawbacks?
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:00 PM   #26
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Cortez, I'm not sure as to the reasoning of the requirement. I just do what they tell me. As for the op's question, yes a piston upper will work on any AR lower as long as it's not a dedicated lower ie: pistol caliber or .22. If your shooting .223 or 5.56 now, you'll be fine.

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Old 02-13-2012, 01:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post
Thats exactly what happens in full auto fails with gas pistons. It actually happened on "sons of guns". I think some of the confusion is coming from the full auto problems and the fact that some of the piston uppers discussed are proprietary and not add on kits. The suggestion to use a hydraulic buffer to balance usually refers to one adding a retro fit gas-piston kit and/or to fix for full auto. The proprietary gas piston uppers can be using a standard buffer set up. Unless they did something weird to the spring which isnt likley. All that said, a factory gas piston upper should work on most lower sets.

Adding a hydraulic buffer to a DI system is said to increase the shot to shot accuracy by reducing the (almost non) recoil. I have heard that a heavy buffer offers similar benefits. What I have not heard of is using a heavy buffer to compensate for a gas-piston, but I don't know everything.
I think sons of guns got the gas adjustment wrong, along with a bunch of other mistakes they made. That said, I beleive it was Colt that came up with the idea of a hydraulic buffer for the AR/M16 when they built the LSW M16A2(Light Support Weapon), as that weapon was built exclusively for open bolt full auto. (Incidentally, it was a DI system) If you are going to fire a significant percentage on full auto, a hydraulic buffer may be a consideration to slow the rate of fire down, but otherwise I think it may be spending money you don't have to. I have the hydr. buffers because I initially believed the hype, but if I had it to do over, I wouldn't spend the extra money unless I was going to get a NFA machine gun. Just my .02. If you will notice, most of the drop in piston kits are coming with a full auto bolt carrier, as the extra mass helps offset the minimal downward push from the operating rod of these particular systems, with a side benefit being slowing down the cyclic rate a minimal amount. Some of them also have their own proprietary buffer springs over the operating rod, probably in an effort to slow down the cyclic rate. I don't think you will need a hydraulic buffer unless you are sending about 4000 rounds or more downrange in a day.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:50 PM   #28
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Is this because on full auto the spring would cause the bolt and carrier to return too quickly and potentially cause a failure to fully eject? The hydraulic buffer would slow down the cycle rate? In either case it sounds like the hydraulic buffer is there to slightly slow down the cylce rate and the bolt return. Is that correct?
I think that is the concept.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:50 PM   #29
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I have never seen a F/A firearm w/ a hydraulic buffer.

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Old 02-13-2012, 03:18 PM   #30
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I have never seen a F/A firearm w/ a hydraulic buffer.
The LSW came from Colt with the hydraulic buffer. I think it is the only model AR rifle that ever had the hydraulic buffer as standard equipment.

http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/m16a2%20lmg.pdf
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