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Old 07-30-2010, 02:16 AM   #41
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As long as you aren't going to be banging it around a killhouse, speed-slinging it over your back in a balls out run for a Zodiac, or being exposed to a near miss with an RPG, you should be fine.
Nope. As long as Glenn Beck's predictions don't come true, the most action this baby will ever see is paper targets and water jugs. I am assuming that this unit will not work if the front of the glass is unable to reflect the laser dot. I do wish it had a housing, or was able to flip down, but it will do just fine for $50 I hope.

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Give us a review if you don't mind.
I finally get to figure out what co-witness is really all about. I'm one of those who can learn by hearing or reading, but it only sinks down if I experience it, touch, use it.

My first sighted shooting into targets with this rifle will happen this weekend. I'll get those results up by Monday or Tuesday. The BSA report will have to come in the future.

Thanks, JD!
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Old 08-02-2010, 04:11 AM   #42
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HELP!!!

I went to the range on Saturday and only got to shoot about 18 rounds:

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f55/dont-assume-competence-29954/#post324472

Last weekend I shot 77 grain, full-power loads, and except for 1 failure to fire, it went pretty well.

Saturday was a totally different deal. I was firing 55 grain Remington UMC plinking rounds. Every 2nd or 3rd round the trigger just clicked. When I cleared these rounds, they were deformed in a way that it looked like there was a problem cycling.

Two options:

1) The target rounds were too weak to cycle the action and the bolt didn't slam all the way back, jamming the rounds into the ramp. The first round after each each FTF was obviously perfect because it was loaded from an open bolt.

2) The bolt didn't have enough lubrication to completely cycle back. (and then same loading issue as #1)

Now, I completely lubed the bolt and upper a week ago when I cleaned it. Used Mobil 1. But a week later, maybe it was too dry? I know the surface of the upper and lower wasn't nearly as shiny and oily as it was right after cleaning. Now I'm thinking that grease is a good idea for the bolt and not just Mobil 1.

So, main question about option #2: Should I lube the action immediately before going to the range? Is that probably the problem?

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Old 08-02-2010, 05:31 AM   #43
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Just say no to grease. I thought the same thing and tried it. It's just too heavy and will gum up the carrier with the same result you have now.

How many total rounds do you think you have since cleaning before the feed problems surfaced?

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Old 08-02-2010, 03:04 PM   #44
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I am confused Chris.

I believe you have good parts if I remember correctly. You were running PMAGs, which everyone loves though I don't personally care for, and it appears that the weapon is cycling, but not all the way??

Do you have M4 feed ramps by any chance?

You were shooting 77 grain and had one failure to fire? But then you switched to 55 grain and had several failure to feed and/or fire?

What was the cause of the 77 grain failure to fire?

If you oiled with Mobil 1, and a week later went to the range, I do not personally believe this is your problem.

As for the pressure, I believe you purchased your upper complete, correct? If so, I would imagine it has been cycle tested and checked, so while I would not rule it out, I would move it down the list of possibles.

Next question, do you have a buddy or someone with another lower that you can try your upper on and see if it cycles correctly?

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:25 PM   #45
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I lubed, fired 30 rounds, cleaned/lubed, waited 7 days, fired 18 rounds.

Each of the FTF's looked deformed:
-The bullet was cockeyed and the casing seemed bent in that same direction, making the entire round appear somewhat arched.

I wish I had saved the rounds and took photos.

The ramp is NOT M4. I believe it has T-marks. (I don't really know what those mean...)

Del-Ton 16" Mid-Length Barrel Assembly with YHM Flip Up Front Sight Gas Block

What about making sure it is lubed the very day of the shooting? I tend to doubt this is a magazine issue, but what do I know? When I charge a round from an unloaded status I never have a FTF. It is only when the action is used and the gases cycle the action. Should I add a drop of oil into the tube on the bolt carrier that goes around the gas tube?

What items should I take with me to test cause/effect when I go to the range next time (hopefully soon)?

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Old 08-02-2010, 08:23 PM   #46
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So, the weapon is cycling when you shoot it, but it is having trouble stripping the next round out of the mag with enough umphh to get it into battery?

Do you have more than one magazine that you can try? How about someone with a different lower you can try your upper on?

I am not convinced this is a lube problem. I have seen AR's that were practically as dry as a desert still have a strong enough spring to force a round up the feed ramp and keep the gun running. Not saying lube is NOT the problem, but it's not my first inclination, especially since you have had the same problem with two different types of ammo.

My vote is try a new mag first, then a different lower if you can.

From there I would look at perhaps a problem with the pressure forcing the BCG group back far enough to compress the spring as required and then we get into fine tuning your buffer weight.

Aren't you in Oregon?

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Old 08-02-2010, 08:56 PM   #47
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Do you have the correct action spring and buffer?

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:02 AM   #48
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Cane- I bought a commercial adjustable buttstock set from RRA:

Rock River Arms: RRA Tactical CAR Stock

I would assume this would work for me, but let me know if this is a possible problem.

JD- Since I had that medical issue during the trip, I wasn't able to test all 3 mags. Your summary isn't correct, though. When the carrier was held back by the bolt catch, the mag inserted, and a round charged by pressing the bolt catch release, I had no problems. I also never had any problems when--starting with an empty chamber--using the charging handle pulled to the rear and released. In other words, my first round ALWAYS fired. I only had difficulties when it was the gas that cycled the action. To me, this removes the mag as the problem, but I'm only using logic, not know-how.

Is there a chance I should modify the action spring? Mine seems pretty darn stout and firm, but does move back when pushed and I have nothing to compare it to. And no, I have nobody else who owns another lower. I am in Oregon and there is a certain someone who actually lives REALLY close. We'll see if he reads this.

I sure wish I could just go into my backyard and fire into the hill. This would be so much faster to test while next to my shop.

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:31 AM   #49
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JD- Since I had that medical issue during the trip, I wasn't able to test all 3 mags. Your summary isn't correct, though. When the carrier was held back by the bolt catch, the mag inserted, and a round charged by pressing the bolt catch release, I had no problems. I also never had any problems when--starting with an empty chamber--using the charging handle pulled to the rear and released. In other words, my first round ALWAYS fired. I only had difficulties when it was the gas that cycled the action. To me, this removes the mag as the problem, but I'm only using logic, not know-how.
Well, it doesn't actually remove the mag from consideration if you only fired one mag and had the issues.

When the bolt carrier is locked back, that is as far back as it's going to get, so you are getting optimum force on the forward release.

What you might have is a weapon that has a condition called "Short Stroking", which anyone that has ever been on a first date knows is never a good thing.

Basically the compression in the gas tube is not enough to force the BCG all the way back to allow for the buffer spring to do it's job effectively.

What can cause this? A lot of different things, not the least of which is the weight of the buffer itself. This is where it gets tricky and you probably need some help.

Do you know anyone with any AR skills?
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:58 AM   #50
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Well, it doesn't actually remove the mag from consideration if you only fired one mag and had the issues.

When the bolt carrier is locked back, that is as far back as it's going to get, so you are getting optimum force on the forward release.

What you might have is a weapon that has a condition called "Short Stroking", which anyone that has ever been on a first date knows is never a good thing.

Basically the compression in the gas tube is not enough to force the BCG all the way back to allow for the buffer spring to do it's job effectively.

What can cause this? A lot of different things, not the least of which is the weight of the buffer itself. This is where it gets tricky and you probably need some help.

Do you know anyone with any AR skills?
Not to overcomplicate things or interject my apprentice level knowledge into the conversation but wouldn't a thorough inspection of the gas block, tube and key be one of the first steps?
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