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Old 08-02-2012, 07:40 AM   #11
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Thanks for the input gents. Some is motivating, some not so much. When I checked last everything was out. I really try to buy locally to help out our guys around here. I found a place that usually cost the same If not better than Internet prices. Got the FZ combo for $220. We will see what happens. Like I said I didn't jump on the wagon I got hit by it. Bad timing!

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Old 08-02-2012, 01:06 PM   #12
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The Nickel Boron Coating is what you're paying for on the Fail Zero BCG. It has several advantages. Nickel Boron is extremely hard, over 60 on the Rockwell C-Scale. This does not allow for it to become impregnated with any foreign matter, or become "charged". This is important in a dirty operating environment, like an AR-15 receiver.

Second, the coating itself has a very high natural lubricity to it. This is why they advertise it can be run dry and without any lubricant. While I would not do that, it can be done without having any galling take place. Third is because of it's extreme hardness, it will wear both itself and the receiver much less. This is especially true in very high temperature applications.

The reason for this is the greater difference in hardness you have metallurgically between two sliding surfaces, the less wear takes place over time, and overall. This is the main reason that bearings in automobile engines are usually made of a soft material like Babbitt or bronze. They wear less against the much harder surfaces of the crankshaft or camshaft. If both the bearing and it's opposing surface were of the same hardness, it would be far easier for either or both of the surfaces to gall.

The exception to this is needle or roller bearings, like the wheel bearings on your car. Because they roll and don't slide against one another, they can be of equal hardness without causing harm. The other advantage of Nickel Boron is that it doesn't allow material to stick to it easily. It has a lot of the same properties of Teflon in that regard. As a result it stays much cleaner, and is a lot easier to clean up. This coating is quite expensive to apply. Much more so that TIN, (Titanium Nitride). That is why they are more expensive than the run of the mill bolt carrier groups you see out there. Don't worry, you bought a very good bolt carrier group. Fail Zero and Young's make 2 of the finest bolt carrier groups out there.

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Old 08-02-2012, 01:30 PM   #13
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Damn, good price.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billt View Post
The Nickel Boron Coating is what you're paying for on the Fail Zero BCG. It has several advantages. Nickel Boron is extremely hard, over 60 on the Rockwell C-Scale. This does not allow for it to become impregnated with any foreign matter, or become "charged". This is important in a dirty operating environment, like an AR-15 receiver.

Second, the coating itself has a very high natural lubricity to it. This is why they advertise it can be run dry and without any lubricant. While I would not do that, it can be done without having any galling take place. Third is because of it's extreme hardness, it will wear both itself and the receiver much less. This is especially true in very high temperature applications.

The reason for this is the greater difference in hardness you have metallurgically between two sliding surfaces, the less wear takes place over time, and overall. This is the main reason that bearings in automobile engines are usually made of a soft material like Babbitt or bronze. They wear less against the much harder surfaces of the crankshaft or camshaft. If both the bearing and it's opposing surface were of the same hardness, it would be far easier for either or both of the surfaces to gall.

The exception to this is needle or roller bearings, like the wheel bearings on your car. Because they roll and don't slide against one another, they can be of equal hardness without causing harm. The other advantage of Nickel Boron is that it doesn't allow material to stick to it easily. It has a lot of the same properties of Teflon in that regard. As a result it stays much cleaner, and is a lot easier to clean up. This coating is quite expensive to apply. Much more so that TIN, (Titanium Nitride). That is why they are more expensive than the run of the mill bolt carrier groups you see out there. Don't worry, you bought a very good bolt carrier group. Fail Zero and Young's make 2 of the finest bolt carrier groups out there.
A new trend in some AR companies is to coat or electroplate with some variation of nickel or nickel alloy. The most common is a nickel teflon, or NP3 coating. POF comes to mind for that one. I have also heard of a few using the nickel boron coat. From some of the reviews, it reduces the need for lube and carbon has a hard time sticking to it. POF charges a lot for theirs, and they have been in business for a while, so there must be something to it. The proof will be when the OP has run 10,000 rounds through his rifle with the nickel boron BCG. I am looking forward to it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:23 PM   #15
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The proof will be when the OP has run 10,000 rounds through his rifle with the nickel boron BCG. I am looking forward to it.
These coatings have already been well proven in the machining and aircraft industry. Coatings of this type just keep getting better over time, along with their method of application. A lot of shooters, especially in the AR world, regard them as some type of "gimmick", that is designed to increase sales. Because of that many refuse to accept them. That, along with the fact several of the paid tactical "trainers" many of them worship, are paid to endorse more conventional products.

That doesn't change the capabilities these coatings in fact bring to the table in regards to much reduced wear, cleanliness, along with increased lubricity. Are they worth it? Only the buyer can decide. I've seen the results of what they can accomplish in other fields. So for me there is no doubt. I have both and can attest to the fact they are far easier to clean when used in a direct impingement AR-15 rifle. Wear of any type is all but non existent both visually, as well as numerically when any measurements are taken in and around wear areas.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by billt View Post
These coatings have already been well proven in the machining and aircraft industry. Coatings of this type just keep getting better over time, along with their method of application. A lot of shooters, especially in the AR world, regard them as some type of "gimmick", that is designed to increase sales. Because of that many refuse to accept them. That, along with the fact several of the paid tactical "trainers" many of them worship, are paid to endorse more conventional products.

That doesn't change the capabilities these coatings in fact bring to the table in regards to much reduced wear, cleanliness, along with increased lubricity. Are they worth it? Only the buyer can decide. I've seen the results of what they can accomplish in other fields. So for me there is no doubt. I have both and can attest to the fact they are far easier to clean when used in a direct impingement AR-15 rifle. Wear of any type is all but non existent both visually, as well as numerically when any measurements are taken in and around wear areas.
I am open to the possibility. I will probably end up buying one when my money situation gets better. Right now I can't even afford the ammo to shoot anymore. Damn Obamacare!!
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:43 PM   #17
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Don't worry I bought mine last time everyone was out. I paid a little less but it was for a RGuns nickel boron BCG. I have heard from some comp shooters that Fail Zero was in their mind the best and worth the extra. So just be happy you got one.

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Old 08-02-2012, 02:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billt View Post
These coatings have already been well proven in the machining and aircraft industry. Coatings of this type just keep getting better over time, along with their method of application. A lot of shooters, especially in the AR world, regard them as some type of "gimmick", that is designed to increase sales. Because of that many refuse to accept them. That, along with the fact several of the paid tactical "trainers" many of them worship, are paid to endorse more conventional products...
Seems contradictory from the guy who recommends cheap AR parts/rifles because "they are as good as" Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, etc. and says you can throw parts from many ARs of different manufacturers in a huge salad bowl and mix 'n' match. Bottom line, there is a standard out there that normally you're wise to be aware of. Buy too cheap, fine but don't say as good as. Buy into the hype and pay more, you don't get a free pass to say better. Prove it in an AR, not in an engine.

The FZ BCM should work fine but my choice would be the $150 BCM that you could buy by the thousands and use reliably in the military's M16 family of rifles.
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
Seems contradictory from the guy who recommends cheap AR parts/rifles because "they are as good as" Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, etc. and says you can throw parts from many ARs of different manufacturers in a huge salad bowl and mix 'n' match. Bottom line, there is a standard out there that normally you're wise to be aware of. Buy too cheap, fine but don't say as good as. Buy into the hype and pay more, you don't get a free pass to say better. Prove it in an AR, not in an engine.

The FZ BCM should work fine but my choice would be the $150 BCM that you could buy by the thousands and use reliably in the military's M16 family of rifles.
Look, I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. I'm still enjoying the fact your buddy has finally departed, (hopefully for good this time). The fact is these coatings have been well proven to work in the applications they're used in. In an apples to apples comparision between like parts, (i.e. Bushmaster, DPMS, Colt, RRA, S&W, Stag, BCM, ect.), there isn't much if any difference in regards to wear and or longevity. All will wear at similar rates because all are manufactured from similar materials. Nickel Boron coated BCG's will wear less over time in similar circumstances, and be far easier to keep clean from carbon and like deposits. If they didn't, they wouldn't be used because there would be no benefit from the increased cost.

The fact that Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers, and the rest of the paid endorsers out there, are paid to endorse companies that employ standard BCG's means nothing as to the longevity and the ease of cleaning these coated BCG's provide. If you feel more comfortable using standard BCG's, that is fine. But please spare us all the "prove it to me" crap that gets tossed around as soon as something unconventional is offered. Prove it to yourself. That is what most of the users of these type of products do anyway.
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:29 PM   #20
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I am open to the possibility. I will probably end up buying one when my money situation gets better. Right now I can't even afford the ammo to shoot anymore. Damn Obamacare!!
That is the biggest drawback these things suffer from right now. A large increased cost in a horrible economy. Anyone who wants to build an AR, or replace a BCG on a budget, can find standard models substantially cheaper. Because of that, it will be only the hard core AR enthusiasts that will shell out the additional funds to buy them.
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