Dream AR-10 - Page 5
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > AR-15 Discussion > Dream AR-10

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2011, 03:44 AM   #41
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3481 Times on 1610 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

1) What do you want it to do? Shoot a .308 10 times before reloading
2) Shoot how far? 100 to 800 yards
3) How fast? Well-placed rounds as fast as 1 per 2 seconds
4) How many rounds will you shoot a month? 100 or less
5) At what distance? Usually 100 to 200 yards, would like to try a 1,000 yard range someday

6) And what accuracy are you expecting?
1 MOA, I don't know if that's too demanding though.

7) Or are you beginning your long range journey and looking to improve?
YES! Sign me up!

Okay, with these answers in mind we have to explore a bit and expose some common myths that are out there.

The first, and most important thing, is that the performance of the 173gr .308 round (M118 Special Ball Military Ammo, *cough-sniper-cough*) is not really an ideal round for "long range" shooting.

It's a great round at 300 yards, a good round at 500-550 rounds and by the time you hit about 650 yards, that is about the ideal range.

Yes, settle down all you Marines who are about to post 100 links about Marines that shoot to a 1,000 yards with it and have been doing so forever.

That is true, but the round is a moon shot at 800 yards, and it's even worse at 1,000 yards.
Well that's just your opinion JD.


Take into account a 600 yard zero. A true shooter’s setting because no one really zeros at this distance unless they compete in some way, shape or form. From a 600 yard zero, you lose EIGHTY INCHES of bullet flight from zero at 600 yards, to impact at 800 yards.

80 INCHES!

Yeah. It’s an opinion, but it's based in facts. The AR platform is a FLAT TOP Receiver.

Bolt guns have a scope base that you install the scope onto that has cant (20 MOA of tilt) built into them to allow you to crank up the scope to reach those extreme ranges.

Without forward cant on your scope base, you are going to wear out your elevation knob on most good to very good quality scopes to be able to get a view of the target at that range.

Now.

As for your rifle, under your specifications as listed above in your responses……

You need a semi custom bolt gun with an internal box magazine or an aftermarket stock that allows external magazines. This will meet all your specific criteria and give you a MUCH better chance at the accuracy you are chasing, while saving you money on these overpriced AR platforms you are chasing.

But. If you wish to pursue an AR platform here are some things to consider.
A Kreiger Barrel – They make some of the best barrels in the business and they will custom cut a chamber for the specific round of your choice. Like an accuracy rated round out of a set reloading manual.

A Two Stage Trigger – This will give you a better take up, balance in your breathing, before the trigger breaks to release the firing pin into motion.

A Free Float Fore End Tube – This will allow the barrel harmonics to react the same every time you pull the trigger.

Badger Ordnance AR Riser Rail – This will allow you the necessary travel you will need to up dial your scope to be able to hit targets out at the 800 or 1,000 yard line.

Top Quality Scope – Leupold or equivalent at the low end of your selection. You need a scope with top quality elevation ability built into it, and the need to know that when you dial in 23 clicks and dial in back, that you are returning to true zero.
__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 08:15 AM   #42
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Gloves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Fremont,CA
Posts: 483
Liked 21 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 18

Default

"But. If you wish to pursue an AR platform here are some things to consider."
Yes, yes I am.

I have an out-of-the box Spikes' Tactical...
I would be very embarrassed if it could shoot a tighter shot at 100 yards than the AR-10.

The 800 to 1000 yards would just be for fun.


Dillinger i like your suggestions. What do you think that complete system (w/o scope) would run me?

__________________

- Gloves
"When the situation gets too hot, put Gloves on"
or
"If the gun is cold to the touch, put Gloves on" -RustyShackleford101

Gloves is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 03:41 PM   #43
Supporting Member
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Sniper03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,658
Liked 2979 Times on 1450 Posts
Likes Given: 1505

Default

Gloves,

JD & Ktm as well as the others have given some good advise. Especially regarding proprietary parts concerning the 308 AR Platforms. I just wanted to inject another company that produces a great quality 308 AR System. And that is Rock River Arms. As far as quality and accuracy they are hard to beat. The only thing a little different is they take FN-LAR Inch or Metric Magazines that are not proprietary as the other. And the rifle comes standard with the 2 Stage NM Trigger. The 20" LAR-8 (308) rifles are guaranteed 1 MOA or less right out of the box. I have an RRA 16" LAR-8 that will shoot right at 1 MOA regularly. Just for more information only. Sounds like you have been learning a lot regarding this topic.
Good Luck!

03

__________________
Sniper03 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 05:50 PM   #44
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
russ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Junction,Colorado
Posts: 1,016
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Sorry I don't have a better picture that this, but I just built this one not too long ago. It's a CMMG billet lower (meh) and a DPMS complete upper. 24" fluted stainless barrel and worked over mil-spec trigger group gives better that 1 moa if I do my part. There were some lessons learned on this build, and I wouldn't do it exactly the same if I were starting over. I'd drop the coin on a MEGA Machine matched upper and lower and build the whole thing myself.

__________________
russ is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 06:49 PM   #45
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Gloves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Fremont,CA
Posts: 483
Liked 21 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 18

Default

That is amazing. When people say, "builld an AR" Does that mean matching a lower and upper and maybe changing the furniture or is it more building individual parts?

What Scope did you go with? That'll end up being a whole different thread once I have the rifle.

__________________

- Gloves
"When the situation gets too hot, put Gloves on"
or
"If the gun is cold to the touch, put Gloves on" -RustyShackleford101

Gloves is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 08:13 PM   #46
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3481 Times on 1610 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger
"But. If you wish to pursue an AR platform here are some things to consider."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gloves View Post
Yes, yes I am.

I have an out-of-the box Spikes' Tactical...

I would be very embarrassed if it could shoot a tighter shot at 100 yards than the AR-10.

The 800 to 1000 yards would just be for fun.


Dillinger i like your suggestions. What do you think that complete system (w/o scope) would run me?
I would say $200-$250 for a matching upper and lower receiver.

RRA Two Stage Trigger, or equivalent, would be about $100-$125. Piece of cake to install and will really help you squeeze performance out of your shooting ability at longer ranges.

Kreiger Barrel? M-110 Service Rifle

I would opt for the $240 additional option of having them assemble, head space (formality) / operation check your upper if you are REALLY serious accuracy.

The other option is to buy the barrel and have a local gun shop "blueprint" your upper receiver. This means that the lip the barrel sets in is 100% in tune with the center axis of the barrel bore. It's a really minor, anal, attention to detail additive, but if you are getting into the sport to shoot for that kind of range, minor changes at the breach can mean HUGe differences downrange.

Free float fore end? Hell, swing a dead cat and just pick one. There are so many out there now I am pretty sure you find them at 7-11 in the Automotive and Maint aisle. Probably $100-$200.

Badger Ordnance AR Riser Rail? About $100-$125 depending on where you shop online and who has it in stock.

Does that help?

I would add a top quality FIXED position stock, you don't need an adjustable one on a bull barreled long range shooting stick unless you are sharing with your best friend who also happens to be a midget. Sorry. Little Person.
__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 12:17 AM   #47
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mjkeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wichita,Kansas
Posts: 4,026
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts

Default

$375 for the barrel then an additional $240 for chambering and assembly. Thats a crap ton of cash for a barrel.

__________________
mjkeat is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 12:33 AM   #48
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3481 Times on 1610 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
$375 for the barrel then an additional $240 for chambering and assembly. Thats a crap ton of cash for a barrel.
I take it you aren't a fan of Krieger? While I agree that $240 is a lot for blueprinting, Krieger is a name brand in the industry.

I have Krieger barrels on several rifles and have paid for everyone of them. The thing is, I have YET to get a bad one.

There is such a thing as a known commodity when you are purchasing parts. Krieger is one of them for me personally.

JD
__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 12:46 AM   #49
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mrm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 2,471
Liked 348 Times on 233 Posts
Likes Given: 31

Default

If you want to run with the big dogs you more than likely need single point cut rifled barrels. Krieger and Bartlein IMO are in the top 5 barrel makers in the industry. You gets what you pays for.

__________________
mrm14 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 03:11 AM   #50
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mjkeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wichita,Kansas
Posts: 4,026
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
I take it you aren't a fan of Krieger? While I agree that $240 is a lot for blueprinting, Krieger is a name brand in the industry.

I have Krieger barrels on several rifles and have paid for everyone of them. The thing is, I have YET to get a bad one.

There is such a thing as a known commodity when you are purchasing parts. Krieger is one of them for me personally.

JD
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm14 View Post
If you want to run with the big dogs you more than likely need single point cut rifled barrels. Krieger and Bartlein IMO are in the top 5 barrel makers in the industry. You gets what you pays for.
I'm 100% that they are awesome barrels. Im also more than willing to pay for quality and customer service. I however was under the impression Gloves was looking for something a little less pricey.

I didnt even add for threading.
__________________

Last edited by mjkeat; 06-12-2011 at 03:19 AM.
mjkeat is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Dream gun FaTmAn The Club House 41 05-08-2011 07:30 PM
DREAM Act Bigcountry02 Politics, Religion and Controversy 9 12-10-2010 04:19 AM
My survival dream michigan0626 Survival & Sustenance Living Forum 18 12-02-2010 09:25 PM
DREAM Act Alert! CA357 Politics, Religion and Controversy 5 11-22-2010 09:38 PM
Dream Revolver? californiaguntoter Revolver Handguns 9 05-04-2008 07:10 AM