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-   -   DPMS Issues continued (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/dpms-issues-continued-67167/)

Quentin 06-27-2012 12:44 AM

DPMS Issues continued
 
I saw this post over at Survivalist Forum and since we often get DPMS pro/con disagreements I thought it might be of interest. Dropping in 84tecate's quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84tecate (Post 3880021)
Here are a few reads of people having common problems with DPMS,

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?64682-short-stroking-problem

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=22989

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=465227

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=359694

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100313143000AAWUuCO

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2021723

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-492387.html

http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_3_66/444461_.html&page=1

http://www.ak47.net/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=508374

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=37502

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-52805.html

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/short-stroking-t52200.html

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2169589

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/failure-feed-ar15-dpms-upper-171781/

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=496577

http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=433979

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-162535.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450166

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-82352.html

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&p=191028

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-364349.html

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60591

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=540699

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?95459-DPMS-.223-double-feed-failure-to-extract

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=535535

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21047

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-559863.html



IMO, for right around a $1000 or less, You could get a Colt 6920, Spikes, PSA, BCM. For around $1200 you can get into a Daniel Defense and for $1500-$2000 you can get a Noveske or Knights Arament.

What makes these brands, a better quality and value you then DPMS, are the materials and QC. Of all the brands listed they all,

HPT/MPI the Bolt
HPT/MPI the Barrel
Carpernter 158 Bolt steel
Shot peened bolt
4150 Barrel Steel
F-marked front sight post
Mil-spec reciever extension
Properly Staked Gas key
Properly staked castle nut
Proper M4 feed ramps
7075 Upper and Lower
H-buffer
1:7 twist barrel
Chrome lined barrel and chamber
Proper 5.56 chamber

DPMS skips these to save money. Right now the value in AR's is with Palmetto state armory where you can assemble a rifle with these features for the price of a DPMS.

Places like M4carbine.net are good places to read about M4's and their variants.

Few prices
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-C
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=XV-M4

Edit: I also had a DPMS and had ongoing problems with it short stroking.


powell0892 06-27-2012 12:48 AM

Great find Quentin!

MikeJK 07-07-2012 02:42 PM

How dare you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fathead00 07-07-2012 03:09 PM

What's a average cost to make your own AR? I don't know the first thing of building a AR.

dog2000tj 07-07-2012 03:11 PM

Haters always gonna hate ;) :p and I wouldn't consider yahoo answers a definitive source on anything :cool:

Just because you can find a source online saying DPMS is crap doesn't make it so. I can find sources on line saying that the moon is made of cheese ... is it? :rolleyes:


We've beat this horse to death and now we are now beating it beyond death. Folks posting on the internet "in their humble opinion" about the quality of a DPMS rifle are for the most part doing just that, posting their opinion. Fact is Mil Spec is Mil Spec so if all manufacturers are manufacturing to Mil Spec than they are all the same (similar to Nascar).

Do others make a better rifle than DPMS, absolutely. But back in 08' when I purchased my first AR (an AR10) few were manufacturing an AR in .308 and the ones that were were at the $2k mark or more, DPMS was right around $1100. I am highly confident that others were not putting $900 more quality into their products!

Bottom line, and this was something I was hoping FTF could have grown into, I would love to see a dozen or so manufacturers step up to the plate, donate a mil spec rifle, and go head to head for a review. I came to FTF for information and then purchased a DPMS, next I "built" my own STAG and then I had a custom build done in 458SOCOM ... I would put any of my rifles up against anybody's anyday ;)

dog2000tj 07-07-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fathead00 (Post 862312)
What's a average cost to make your own AR? I don't know the first thing of building a AR.

Depends, before the campaigning bs one could get a good quality AR for around $700. But now, as was the case in 08', you would be hard pressed to keep it under $1k.

A lot depends on what you want the rifle to do as well - fun/gun range shooter vs long range precision vs varmint hunter ... all going to be different requirements.

MikeJK 07-07-2012 03:23 PM

That maybe so back in 08 but it's 2012 now. A lot of people say BM made a decent rifles a decade ago but that doesn't change the Freedom Groups, profits at any cost mantra of today. Money over morals has never produced a quality product.

As long as there are individuals recommending poor quality to the unknowing/unsuspecting there will be those who will chime in w/ the rest of the story. It's only right.

Fathead00 07-07-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog2000tj

Depends, before the campaigning bs one could get a good quality AR for around $700. But now, as was the case in 08', you would be hard pressed to keep it under $1k.

A lot depends on what you want the rifle to do as well - fun/gun range shooter vs long range precision vs varmint hunter ... all going to be different requirements.

Just a fun/gun range. I have my grandpas remington 721 for long range. Always wanted a AR in 5.56. There's just so many companies and options out there!

W. C. Quantrill 07-07-2012 03:47 PM

There are two DPMS 5.56's and one .308 around here. I have not seen a problem with any of these three. They feed what you can stuff in the magazine, and they are accurate.

They are kept clean and the bolts wet oiled. The local gun shop moved about 250 of them at Christmas time, and I have not heard any complaints about them....

dog2000tj 07-07-2012 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeJK (Post 862324)
That maybe so back in 08 but it's 2012 now. A lot of people say BM made a decent rifles a decade ago but that doesn't change the Freedom Groups, profits at any cost mantra of today. Money over morals has never produced a quality product.

As long as there are individuals recommending poor quality to the unknowing/unsuspecting there will be those who will chime in w/ the rest of the story. It's only right.

You're right it is and I don't disagree that their are other's out there now who are manufacturing better rifles than DPMS. But you have dug your heels in about the morals and business practices of DPMS as being unjust by manufacturing lower quality rifles. So what say you to the manufacturers who gouged gun owners back in 08'? I would call that immoral as well, especially when done to the very community that they are supported by ... gun owners. :mad: By your reasoning you wouldn't give time of day for DD, Noveske, LaRue, Armalite, Colt ... all overpriced Mil Spec rifles :rolleyes:

The so called "top tier" manufacturers tried to gouge gun owner by selling $1k rifles for $2k and more. A lot of this "DPMS is crap" lore was started by folks who were suckered into paying $2k for their rifles and felt slighted that anyone would dare sell an AR for less than $1k. Read the build threads here Mike, look at the range reports, lot's of folks here who "built" their own, Spitty ACTUALLY built his own, and we didn't need the Chart or some top tier manufacturer to do it.

Just because GM sells a Camaro for $60k doesn't make it a Corvette ..... it's still a POS Camaro ;)

as I said, I would love for FTF to have the clout with manufacturers to be able to conduct product reviews and head to head tests so we could put forth viable, accurate information and not just opinion or regurgitated internet lore. Look at all the sites listed in Q's post - is it any wonder why some manufacturers won't even think of submitting for testing ... they couldn't possibly get a fair shake.


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