Originally Posted by JonM
just a fyi.
milspec doesnt mean lowest bidder. it is a set of standards that define what is acceptable in parts quality to the current govt contracting procedure.
some companies like rra build to the tight end of milspec dimensions. companies like dpms cut some corners in testing and assembly to bring in a product at a low price point. my bcm and dpms panther will swap all parts around no problem. the only thing torqued correctly on the dpms was the grip screw.
the reason a lot of people want a milspec gun isnt to "go to war" its to avoid having problems when just out shooting for fun.
dont deride or put down people who choose to opt for a better quality gun
we are all on the same team there is room for everyone. if you want to buy a dpms delton M&P go for it. im not losing money on your choice of a rifle.
Since you mention quality and lowest bidder, in relation to milspec, that is exactly what colt does, has done, and just did again against h&k, FNH, and a couple of other manufacturers for the military contract renewal, which, they came in last for reliability by the way.
I have not been the one putting down anyone for their choice of weapon, go back through the thread and read some of the comments by others that insist on having mil-spec rifles and you will see who the critics are over the chouce of someone's pick for a rifle. I will be one of the first to state that you need not buy a 3k knights, or a 2200 noveske. You are not taking it to war, you are not dumping 40 mags out on full auto and unless you have a bad mag, or a pencil barrell, shouldnt have any trouble with any manufacturers. There are people that run 3 gun all day with a delton or dti.
Do any of these complain of reliability? no, only the guys in here. They reference m4carbine.net as a good source for "those in the know", unknowing that i am over there as well as ar-15.com and can tell you that the same people are on both, but they just are too ignorant to realize that.
I have shot, owned , carried, quite a few different m-16's, m4's, ar-15's over the past few years. At some point they will all have a problem of some sort if they are not cleaned and maintained. Just because it says colt doesnt mean tht it will be more reliable than a dpms or stag that is made to same spec. Del-ton at least hand inspects and fits their parts together individually, the same as RRA, unlike colt and their assembly mass prodduction line. Ill state it again, since you mention the above, but the m&p, well they are made by stag's parent company. There is one individual in here that claims so much knowledge on ar's yet his first build was on an m&p, which came out about 4 1/2 years ago. What extensive experience that is!
If you feel it requires you to spend 2500 dollars on a rifle and then another 1k on a scope to get 400 meter range out of it, which is the effective range of a m4 with 16 in barrell shooting 55gr 5.56, its in the ARMY HAND BOOK, which is also what? mil-spec. Thne go do it. But stop criticizing those who buy or are going to buy one cheaper. The same 5 people in here just repeat themselves over and over as if they are "experts" yet at the same time, have argued with people in here that obviously know quite a bit more about the rifle than they do. There have even been troops who have used the colt in combat come in and give their mixed review about the rifles, yet they still swear by them.
If del-ton, dpms, bushy ect are so bad as what some of you state and repeat, though you have no first hand experence with either, than the companies would be out of buisness, expecially in the current flooded market of ar producers. Yet, instead, they are the best selling with repeat buyers. You can either buy a dpms for 800, or a colt at the current "dealer price" i can get it for you at 1150 off of davidsons .
If you want to see who the critics are go back a few pages in this extremely old thread and ead who they are, and see who bashes who for their choice/opinions/epreiences ect. You will see which ones are promoting one while criticisinz all others. Funny thing is while they are doing that, the 2 most common law enforcement ar's in patrol cars are a bushy and dpms... go figure huh. Civilian cant trust their rifle but a cop can/does his life on the very same one!
I agree this thread should be locked so they cannot tarnish anyone else's views with their internet generated and acquired knowledge and repeat the opinions of others since they have no first hand experience in the matter themselves.