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Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > AR-15 Discussion > DPMS AR or Del-Ton AR

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Old 06-02-2012, 01:29 AM   #221
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Elistism?

Where?

Guns are tools. Not all tools are made the same. Cheap tools will last a long time time with light and moderate user but will break under hard use. Well made tools will last longer but may break under hard and heavy use.

Both cheap and expensive tools will work. It is important to know the differences. It is important to use the right tool for the job.

I have tools for play/hobby. I get try to get the best tools for important jobs.

Having a tool break on you during a job can cost you the job, or your life.

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Old 06-02-2012, 02:44 AM   #222
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Elitism? That's laughable. I love it when guys use elitism or any such insult to defend a low quality product.

I know a thing or 2 about military armorers. They generally suck in my experience. They are usually lazy and are simply regular soldiers pulled off the line. The only thing they like about being in the arms room is they don't have to go out into the field.

2nd they don't have a lot to work w/. Even highly deployed units don't get the weapons rotation they need. They get stuck w/ worn out POS in need of retirement. To use an issued weapon as proof that they suck is BS. Blame the armorer and your chain of command.
That all may be true - but the gun I was issued was a Colt - it did break, and I was issued this thing to defend high value strategic assets that would make the biggest IED you've ever seen look like a firecracker if the bad guys got to them.

Some of the posters are very opinionated - when it comes to which gun to buy - cheap doesn't necessarily mean low quality - I used to shoot trap and skeet competitively at the local, regional and state level - and I used a "cheap" Remington 1100 or 11-87 Trap or Skeet Model - and regularly beat guys shooting Ljutic's, Perazzi's and Krieghoff's - those guns cost 5 to 10 times more than my gun.

I have never owned or shot a DPMS or Del-ton - but I have read lots of reviews and watched them on various internet sites - those that own the guns are not reporting a whole bunch of problems - And even S & W guns are sometimes spoken of badly - again I never shot a S & W AR 15 variant but I have lots of experience with a variety of other S & W weapons and I would not ever call them poor or substandard quality - In fact, when I was a police officer I almost exclusively carried S & W - including Mod 15, 19, 66, 1076, 1066. I just bought Sigma, at about $200 cheaper than a Glock or Sig - I did not have any problems that stand out and was betting my life on them.

Just some thoughts.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:12 AM   #223
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That all may be true - but the gun I was issued was a Colt - it did break, and I was issued this thing to defend high value strategic assets that would make the biggest IED you've ever seen look like a firecracker if the bad guys got to them.

Some of the posters are very opinionated - when it comes to which gun to buy - cheap doesn't necessarily mean low quality - I used to shoot trap and skeet competitively at the local, regional and state level - and I used a "cheap" Remington 1100 or 11-87 Trap or Skeet Model - and regularly beat guys shooting Ljutic's, Perazzi's and Krieghoff's - those guns cost 5 to 10 times more than my gun.

I have never owned or shot a DPMS or Del-ton - but I have read lots of reviews and watched them on various internet sites - those that own the guns are not reporting a whole bunch of problems - And even S & W guns are sometimes spoken of badly - again I never shot a S & W AR 15 variant but I have lots of experience with a variety of other S & W weapons and I would not ever call them poor or substandard quality - In fact, when I was a police officer I almost exclusively carried S & W - including Mod 15, 19, 66, 1076, 1066. I just bought Sigma, at about $200 cheaper than a Glock or Sig - I did not have any problems that stand out and was betting my life on them.

Just some thoughts.
I've heard there's this guy on this site that spent some time walking the mountains of Afghanistan searching for these funny looking guys from some silly deck of cards. He said their (company sized unit, 100 +/-) M4s performed flawlessly.

Who knows, he's probably lying.

We all have different experiences. Its to bad yours was bad.
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:15 AM   #224
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That's fine - I respect your opinion - and I am sure if what happened to me was common place rifles would get replaced.

If the DPMS guns were so bad - they would not sell and my local gun shop says it is hard to keep them in stock - never seen a Del-Ton - and will so many owners of the DPMS guns - I would think there would be lots more bad reviews on them.

I did see a used Bushmaster that intrigued me too

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Old 06-02-2012, 05:29 AM   #225
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That's fine - I respect your opinion - and I am sure if what happened to me was common place rifles would get replaced.

If the DPMS guns were so bad - they would not sell and my local gun shop says it is hard to keep them in stock - never seen a Del-Ton - and will so many owners of the DPMS guns - I would think there would be lots more bad reviews on them.

I did see a used Bushmaster that intrigued me too
Thank you.

Gun store employees are sales men and most don't know a whole lot about firearms. I trust them like I trust any other sales associate.

LGS like ARs like DPMS because the profit margins are higher. Reason being they cut corners in materials and productions costs. This allows the cost to price gap bigger.

I will say that most of us would be ok w/ a DPMS if the price of one wasn't so close to what it would cost to get into something much better. It doesn't make sense to not pay a little extra for something of much better quality if it's needed or not.
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:46 AM   #226
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... If the DPMS guns were so bad - they would not sell and my local gun shop says it is hard to keep them in stock - never seen a Del-Ton - and will so many owners of the DPMS guns - I would think there would be lots more bad reviews on them...
Let's face it, the majority of firearms are fondled a lot and shot little. DPMS plays the odds and knows many people will never put 100 rounds down the bore. You begin to see quality differences in brands with harsh use and thousands of rounds.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:03 PM   #227
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I was a gun store salesman at one time - I worked the sporting goods counter at two major retailers and a local gun shop. I never did try to sell anything to anyone - I tried to make myself informed and give the best information - the LGS I worked at was geared towards hunting guns - and I was pretty well versed in the shotguns, rifles and other equipment we carried.

We did not carry AR's and at the time I think late 90s Olympic, Colt and Bushmaster was about all that was available around us.

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Old 06-02-2012, 04:44 PM   #228
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A lot has changed since the glory days of Bushies.

Lemme see if I can name a few... in no particular order:
Bcm colt noveske larue, kinghts armaments
Daniel defense, palmetto state, spikes rainer arms, patriot ordinance
Land warfare research company, black rain, red jacket, addax, rock river arms
Scionics, ar performance, black hole weaponry, stag, lewis machine and tool
Les baer, wilson combat, cmmg, S&w, sig arms
Hesse, backthorne, vulcan, delton, dpms
Bushmaster, doublestar, olympic, cmmg, charles daly,
Ruger, sabre defence, jp enterprises, gap, yankee hill
Fabrique nationale, armalite, american spirit arms, l&g weaponry, high standard, superior arms


My brain is fried........got. 45 for ya.....I'm sure there's more....

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Old 06-02-2012, 04:47 PM   #229
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Crap remington.....46


So ya lotsa have changed, soo many options now.

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Old 06-02-2012, 05:16 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHickam View Post
I was a gun store salesman at one time - I worked the sporting goods counter at two major retailers and a local gun shop. I never did try to sell anything to anyone - I tried to make myself informed and give the best information - the LGS I worked at was geared towards hunting guns - and I was pretty well versed in the shotguns, rifles and other equipment we carried.

We did not carry AR's and at the time I think late 90s Olympic, Colt and Bushmaster was about all that was available around us.
And that is commendable. Unfortunately it's not the norm today. I'm not sure if the average salesman behind the gun counter is any more informed than the kid at Best Buy. Anyway, I almost always know more than the salesman and if I don't I research before buying. Sad to say many people get sold a bill of goods that benefits the salesman.
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