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Old 03-19-2013, 02:59 AM   #21
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I do not own the LWRC, but I expect it to be similiar to my LMT CQB MRP and the 2 are often contrasted and compared.

Kinda like BWM and Mercedes.
I dont own an HK either but have some small experience with HK.

Among the 3 HK is almost certainly the best but.... at this level of guns, LMT CQB MRFP, LWRC M6A and HK556 the actual operational capability differences have got to be very very small.

if one has money to burn and is persuing a hobby just for fun and wants to feel he owns the very best by all means buy the most expensive one you cna afford.

It will give you a lot of joy..

BUT money matters for most...

The HK is wonderful (I am german descent so i know the ergonomic would be perfect for me ) but the price of that gun I am not sure if it isnt over the top.

Higher end guns have not been affected by the panic buying as much as lower end guns have so they havent gotten so much more epxpensive..
So there is good rationale for when buying in todays climate to buy a high end gun.. but once your at this level I will go by affordability.

Which is of course different for all of us, so when it comes to these guns buy the best you can afford to preclude buyers remorse.
But dont break the bank and feel you overspent.

I know thats all pretty generic advice.... but like i said the differnces at a certain level of rifle start become so small, as builders chase the last half percent of performance at ever increasong cost.


PS: I think the civlian HK416 equivalent the HK 556, costs 2 times as much as a SIG 516.

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluez
I do not own the LWRC, but I expect it to be similiar to my LMT CQB MRP and the 2 are often contrasted and compared.

Kinda like BWM and Mercedes.
I dont own an HK either but have some small experience with HK.

Among the 3 HK is almost certainly the best but.... at this level of guns, LMT CQB MRFP, LWRC M6A and HK556 the actual operational capability differences have got to be minute.

if one has money to burn and is persing a hobby just for fun and wnats to feel he owns the very best by all means by the most expensive one you cna afford.
It will give you a lot of joy..

BUT money matters for most.
The HK is wonderful (I am german descent so i know the ergonomic would be perfect for me ) but the pprice of that gun I am not sure if it isnt over the top.

Higher end guns have not been affected by the panic buying as much as lower end guns have so they havent gotten so much more epxpensive..
So there is good rationale for when buying in todays climate to buya high end gun.. but once your atthis level I will go by affordability.

Which is of course different for all of us so when it come sot these guns buy the best you can afford to preclude buyers remorse.
But dont break the bank and feel you overspent.

I know thats all pretty generic.. but like i said the differnces at acertain level of rifle start become so small as builders chase the last half percent of performance at ever increasong cost.


PS: I think the civlian HK416 equivalent the HK 556, cost 2 times as much as a SIG 516.
Thanks, bluez. I'm partial to high end stuff cos it's been my experience that when the SHTF, that's when things don't work. High end things tend, I say again, TEND, to fare better in the long run. To be honest, the H&K does have a bad rep when it comes to customer service. Maybe I'll get the LWRC M6A2 in 6.8mm SPC and the SIG516 in 5.56mm. Now, which to get first...

Ya know what, thanks, you sold me on the SIG!!
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:27 AM   #23
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Great!

I am glad to be able to contribute in a small way

PS: Sorry about my plethora of typos in previous posts

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:31 AM   #24
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Love this place!!! Too bad we couldn't all commune together under a constitutional government that hasn't been usurped by pansie waists and do-gooders.

P.s. look for me at Guantanamo now!!! Now I'll be deemed a revolutionary!!! AHHHHHH!

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:35 AM   #25
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My friend: We have the guns and the skill .....the enemies of our republic dont, except for their hired guns in certain agencies..
And we are better than they are AND we have the numbers on them.

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluez
My friend: We have the guns and the skill,... the enemies of our republic dont.
If and when America awakes, no one can stop us
Yes, agreed. Been doing this Army thing for 19
years now. Almost over.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:01 AM   #27
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Back on topic here is a truly glowing review ( I know u can always find a good one no matter what but it jumped out at me)
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/09/the-ultimate-development-of-the-piston-m4-rifle.html

The SIG 556 is the epitome of development of the AK Platform, and the 516 is the same for the Stoner Platform. There! That should be worth at least ten pages of Gabe-hate at one of those wannabe forums. (I hope they, at least, spell the name right this time).

This is what SIG's ad says, "The Sig 516 is the fullfilled potential of the AR15 / M16 platform. One of the most tested and proven weapons systems in the world achieves ultimate refinement with the introduction of the SIG516 rifle. With its ambidextrous selector switch, chrome-lined, nitride-finished, military grade barrel and adjustable, three-position gas regulator, the SIG516 incorporates all of the most desirable mechanical improvements. Add to these a free-floating quad rail forend and barrel, and you have the most advanced, versatile AR-based rifle available."

OK...we got a SIG 516 and began working with it. Some guys will say that I am not an AR guy, since I have been the main mover of the AK system here in the USA. Well, I would point them to the book - Tactical Rifle from Paladin Press, which dates back to the previous century. I am not an M4 guy, but not an AK, or FAL, or FS2000, or anything else "guy". I look for quality and efficiency and results. If a platform provides that, we look at it seriously. Moving on.

The SIG 516 is so good that it would make an AK-centric man want to use an M4. Funny how it takes a Swiss company to make the AK more accurate by making it more M4-like and the M4 more reliable by making it more AK-like. Wonderful!

SIG has partcipated in a recent test that will be revealed soon. An undisclosed government group wanted to update its rifles and the SIG SAUER 516 soundly beat several "big name" American AR systems, as well as the HK416 rifles, and decisively in all areas. You heard it here first.

The SIG 516 is so good that one large M4 maker even sued (and lost in court) SIG for making a better rifle than theirs...for less. The funniest thing is that there was all manner of news spread on the internet about "this company" suing those evil SIG people, yet not a single word about them losing the suit.

SIG 516 Features:

Gas piston operating system, three-position gas regulator, 5.56 x 45mm NATO, free-floating military grade chrome lined barrel, M1913 picatinny flat top upper, 7075-T6 Aircraft grade aluminum upper & lower receiver with hard coat anodize finish, Overall Length: 39.5 in, Weight: 7.6lbs, Barrel Length: 16.0 in, Rifling:1 in 7in - Number of Grooves: 6, Features: Advanced pushrod gas system.

This from an industry insider. The 516 is a shameless and improved copy of the HK416. It was designed and built by the same people...some of them anyways...that designed and built the HK416. These guys were hired away from HK - paid more, and told to make the best rifle they could with all their experience, and without the working environment they came from. The result is in my opinion, the pinnacle of M4 development.

Some videos of the SIG516 in tests with the Royal Thai Military -






In my opinion, mo matter how good someone says a DI M4 is, the piston system makes it more like an AK. And with quality magazines, the reliability issues are virtually eliminated. Our studies and research have shown to us that the pinnacle of the M4 Piston development is the HK 416 (that rifle is so far advanced over anything the various M4 companies make, that it is laughable that they want to argue the point). And the SIG516, is an improved version of the 416, developed by the same people that designed the 416 for HK, but in an environment bereft of the HK politics....and for about 1/2 the price.

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Old 03-19-2013, 04:43 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluez View Post
I am a bit late to this thread, but since I own both a DDM4 and a SIG516, I think my opinion is relevant:

The Daniel Defense in a great rifle, and the lack of good finish or workmanship of the "other" Sig the SIG 556 Classic rifles have given SIG a black eye as of late...I had a SIG 556 before and thought it quite crude in many ways..... so I am not a SIG fanboy.

BUT the SIG 516 is NOT the same as the SIG 556.. it is MUCH better!!!!......

the SIG 516 Gives up NOTHING to the Daniel defense in workmanship, looks, accuracy and feel. IMO the SIG516 is a true 100% Tier 1 rifle in a piston flavor

The fit between upper and lower on my SIG 516 is even tigther than on my DDM4V5 (and tighter than on the LMT CQB MRP I just picked up yesterday!)

As for accuracy I have not seen any difference between the 2 (though in fairness to both I have done only short range shooting with either)

Both have CMV CHF CL barrels in 1 in 7 surrounded by free float rails.

Both shoot very smooth, the urban legend that a piston rifle has to shoot less smooth than a DI is just that, an urban legend.
My SIG shoots buttery smooth, doesnt feel front heavy either.
The 3 postion gas regulator gives me the confidence to be able to shoot even the weakest 223 w/o any short cycling and to shoot the hottest 5.56 w/o any overrcycling.

The piston design in the SIG 516 is different and distinct from that of the SIG 556 ( the latter, but not the former, is an americanized version of the Swiss army rifle).

There is a growing school of thought that maintains the high end pistons like the 516 doent really need to be cleaned after every outing or maybe evenb hardly at all...more like when the barrell starts seeing some chrome desposits..so maybe after 5000+ rounds.

As an expirement i might stop cleaning my SIG 516 until 5000 rds and i am confident it will not harm the rifle or significantly affect its reliability.
I could not say that about any DI gun no matter what the brand.

As a life-long DI guy ( 23 yrs in army) i am really warming up to the piston solution especially nice pistons that have solved carrier tilt like the SIG 516 has.

Among the real high end rifles I own I place my SIG 516 slightly above my DDM4V5.
When I got my DDM4 I loved it and wanted to buy more of them..

but then during my search for more DD's (after all most folks are sold out now) , I stumbled on a SIG 516 and gave it a try and now i am in love.
I am sold on the 516 and had been looking for second and maybe even third 516 for myself when the LMT fell in my lap this weekend.

I am on travel so cannot post pics of the SIG.
The lower and upper are in black but the stock, grip, and rail protectors are in FDE.

My SIG 516 is one of only 2 guns (the other is the LMT) I would not sell.
Piston fans always say it's worth the extra money to not have to clean the thing. And imply that a DI must be cleaned religiously. Ever heard the story of "Filthy 14"? No one in their right mind recommends treatment like that but DIs definitely will run even when dirty.

Since you have both rifles how about a more objective comparison? Maybe even weighing your rifles and reporting which one is more muzzle heavy - the piston gun or the DD.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:51 AM   #29
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You could over pay for a DD.... or buy a colt.

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Old 03-19-2013, 06:06 AM   #30
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Yes i heard about filthy 14...
And modern DI rifles are very good.

I like botht rhe DD and the 516 a lot.
But if focred to choose i would choose the 516.

theya re almsot identical in many ways except for DI vs piston.
I can weight both rifles if you like when I get back home next weekend

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